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I was told this stack was ridiculous

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  • #16
    Yes, please dont listen to Youngguns. If you follow him around, you will understand what lilGiant and I mean.

    First of all, a stack is a stack of supplements or anabolics. *shrug*, no big mysticism there, it's just something that you place together for a synergistic effect.

    Second, since you are a begginer, I wouldnt have sold you all that crap. In the begining, you need to let your body's natural process take you as far as it can. You will learn what it's limitations are a lot better that way. When you start out, your body pretty much makes amazing gains on it's own due to it trying to meet the demand of the new workload. Once you learn what your body needs help on, you can start adding supplements based on that knowledge.

    At this point in time, all you need is Protein, a good multivitamin and a good diet. Let tha take you as far as it can. With the new muscle, your metabolism will start gearing up, and you will find that you can lose fat on your own. How much fat is totaly different for everyone, but you will lose some.

    Once you hit a point where you're not making progress, or where you can see what it's capable of doing, start adding in the creatine and other supplements. Make a journal here in the journal section so we can see your progress and be able to guide you better.
    "Life is about choices: tap, nap, or SNAP!" ~ Future UFC Lightweight Champion Marcus Hicks

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    • #17
      man screw everyone who has a go at you! your just asking for advice
      welcome to this place and learn all you can

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DaveV View Post
        What's so bad about it aside from the Nitrix and ZMA? (looking back I didn't even need those)

        Whats bad about ZMA?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by NaturalSuperman View Post
          Whats bad about ZMA?
          Nothing if all you want is some extra Zinc, Magnesium and Vit B6. ZMA has zero anabolic effects.

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          • #20
            If you can afford it then use the stuff. There is some research that ZMA does have hormonal support but from what I have seen its more for older men. A nice night time formula before bed is nice for a protein drink...a slow digesting protein. Lean Dreams is great before bed too.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by FUTURE View Post
              If you can afford it then use the stuff. There is some research that ZMA does have hormonal support but from what I have seen its more for older men. A nice night time formula before bed is nice for a protein drink...a slow digesting protein. Lean Dreams is great before bed too.
              Wouldn't ZMA's hormonal support be derived from Zinc?
              Zinc is necessary to maintain normal serum testosterone. Inadequate zinc levels prevent the pituitary gland from releasing luteinizing and follicle stimulating hormones, which stimulate testosterone production.
              Zinc also inhibits the aromatase enzyme, that allows conversion of testosterone into excess estrogen. The testosterone to estrogen ratio in men declines with aging from a high of about 50:1 to half of that, or even a low of 10:1. Higher estrogen activity results in increased risk of heart disease, weight gain, and obesity.
              One reason for the progressive weight gain with age is that fat cells contain aromatase. More fat cells mean more estrogen which means more fat deposition.
              This is further aggravated by alcohol consumption, which lowers zinc and increases estrogen, and so magnifies the problem.
              In addition to the impact on hormone levels, zinc also has been proven to help the body produce healthier sperm by increasing sperm count and motility. A USDA study found that semen volume dropped 30 percent when zinc intake was low. Research published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that male volunteers who consumed low amounts of zinc exhibited decreased semen volumes and serum testosterone concentrations.
              Zinc deficiency has been found to have a severe impact on the male prostate gland. Zinc deficiency predisposes the prostate to infection (prostatis) which may lead to enlargement of the prostate gland (prostatic hypertrophy).

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              • #22
                http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=2129161

                Effects of Zinc Magnesium Aspartate (ZMA) Supplementation on Training Adaptations and Markers of Anabolism and Catabolism

                Abstract


                "This study examined whether supplementing the diet with a commercial supplement containing zinc magnesium aspartate (ZMA) during training affects zinc and magnesium status, anabolic and catabolic hormone profiles, and/or training adaptations. Forty-two resistance trained males (27 9 yrs; 178 8 cm, 85 15 kg, 18.6 6% body fat) were matched according to fat free mass and randomly assigned to ingest in a double blind manner either a dextrose placebo (P) or ZMA 30–60 minutes prior to going to sleep during 8-weeks of standardized resistance-training. Subjects completed testing sessions at 0, 4, and 8 weeks that included body composition assessment as determined by dual energy X-ray absorptiometry, 1-RM and muscular endurance tests on the bench and leg press, a Wingate anaerobic power test, and blood analysis to assess anabolic/catabolic status as well as markers of health. Data were analyzed using repeated measures ANOVA."

                "Results indicated that ZMA supplementation non-significantly increased serum zinc levels by 11 – 17% (p = 0.12). However, no significant differences were observed between groups in anabolic or catabolic hormone status, body composition, 1-RM bench press and leg press, upper or lower body muscular endurance, or cycling anaerobic capacity. Results indicate that ZMA supplementation during training does not appear to enhance training adaptations in resistance trained populations"


                "The major findings of this study was that dietary supplementation of a commercially available ZMA supplement resulted in a non-significant 12–17% increase in serum zinc levels but did not appear to effect anabolic or catabolic responses to resistance training, body composition, or training adaptations. These findings do not support contentions that ZMA supplementation during training increases muscle mass and/or enhances training adaptations. The following provides additional insight to results observed."
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by mr.genetics View Post
                  Well the problem that lies within taking creatine and a fat burner at the same time, is just that. It doesnt make any sense. You are basically taking two products that will counteract eachother to an extent. Basically the creatine molecule goes into the muscle cell and draws water in. When the cell expands it is now more capable of growth due to increased protein metabolization (creatien increases igf-1 levels and increases your muscles capacity to not only take more protein in and regenerate itself, but also produce more chemical compounds such as atp which allow you to train harder. ) Now you are taking this along with a fat burner which basically wants to incinerate the fat and water stores that you have in fatty and muscle cells. As you can see, this is highly counter productive because the creatine will be trying to swell your muscle cell, while the fat burner is trying to extract the water. You are basically paying 100 bucks for two supplements that wont do anything or very little for you.
                  correct me if im wrong, but im pretty sure taking creatine and a fat burner at the same time would be beneficial to fat loss, because creatine itself can burn an extra 100 cals/day. i dont think fat burners remove water from the muscles, they are called fat burners for a reason.

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                  • #24
                    All that is ok except nitrix which is unnecessary.

                    ZMA isn't some kind of steroid like it is made out to be. It is just another type of nutritional supplement like everything else.

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                    • #25
                      Lipo 6 is a great pre-workout product.

                      I don't like having to deal with messy powders. I just take 3-4 capsules of Lipo 6 pre-workout.


                      Creatine is good if you can handle it. The side effects are not worth it for me.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by muscle197 View Post
                        correct me if im wrong, but im pretty sure taking creatine and a fat burner at the same time would be beneficial to fat loss, because creatine itself can burn an extra 100 cals/day. i dont think fat burners remove water from the muscles, they are called fat burners for a reason.
                        I totally agree. Creatine will make your muscles fuller, which is always a good thing, burning fat or not. DO NOT listen to the advice telling you they don't go together.

                        If that's true, then bodybuilders dieting for fat loss shouldn't try to keep their muscles full, and everyone knows that's not true. Fat burners do nothing but increase metabolism.....that's all.

                        Contest prep is a great time to use creatine, when you need all the help you can get staying full.
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                        • #27
                          I use vitamins, fish oil, creatine and protein...and try to eat well.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Rep300 View Post
                            I totally agree. Creatine will make your muscles fuller, which is always a good thing, burning fat or not. DO NOT listen to the advice telling you they don't go together.

                            If that's true, then bodybuilders dieting for fat loss shouldn't try to keep their muscles full, and everyone knows that's not true. Fat burners do nothing but increase metabolism.....that's all.

                            Contest prep is a great time to use creatine, when you need all the help you can get staying full.
                            YUP on the money!! That's what I wanted to say about creatine and fat burners, you can take both products along no problem. As for zma, it is a testosterone support formula, which means it will prevent a drop in serum testosterone associated with heavy training. Anyway I notice I sleep better on it, so it does the job for me. If you're pumping 1g a week though don't worry about test dropping at all.... but the guy is a natty and getting started, if he trains heavy and stimulates his CNS a lot I'd have him on ZMA or some kind of magnesium supplement (Poliquin Ubermag) right now.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by gdbear65 View Post
                              Wouldn't ZMA's hormonal support be derived from Zinc?
                              But so would water, carbs, other micronutrients. All part of the process. I do think as a sleeping help it does increase recovery.

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                              • #30
                                ZMA=better sleep better recouperation. Creatine will hydrate your muscle ,fat burners burn fat. These 2 compounds work well together or alone, completely different action in the body.

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