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What's the cause of this gynecomastia?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by str8flexed
    cold room... one pic... tell me, why don't you see this 'gyno' in any other pic

    maybe kurt just works harder than most people... that ever cross your mind?
    It's not just that one pic. It can be seen in the side triceps, abs and thighs etc. But whatever...

    Layne, seriously, when will you get it in your head that not everyone is a hater! This has nothing to do with jealousy. Let me ask you this: IYO was IFBB pro Mike Ashley a lifetime natural as he claimed? He was tested several times and never failed. He had "all natural" columns in both Flex and Ironman. If I say it's unlikely he wins the Arnold Classic being lifetime natural am I a hater? If I say the gyno he had was likely due to steroids am I a hater that is unable to accept that Mike trained harder than me? What criteria do you need for you to believe someone has never used hormones? Just their word?


    Regarding this Kurt dude I can accept that he could have achieved that level of leanness and size without steroids. It's not about that. He has gyno which is indicative of hormone use. It might have been just a couple of weeks which would not have enhanced his physique to any significant degree.

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    • #17
      I can see what you can see, but this is not indictive of drug use. Many guys get a degree of 'gyno' when they simply go through puberty, sometimes it disapears completely and other times the gland under the nipple just retains a little bit of puffiness

      In these pics, what is probably going against Kurt is that he is so lean and that is visable, but is still not conclusive that he has done anything wrong

      If the federation he competes with tests him and he passes, he passes - that simple
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      • #18
        i'm done with you Van.
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        • #19
          Well, from those pics it DOES appear that he has gyno. That is NOT just a hard nipple! That said, there are many guys that have "natural" gyno, that has nothing to do with taking exogenous hormones. It is very possible this is the case here. Obviously only HE knows for sure whether he is natural, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt unless PROVEN otherwise.

          Also, yes, he is looking freaking awesome...natural or not!
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          • #20
            so most natural federations are 1 year drug free. why do i always hear about these naturals always taking years off in between competitions? is it not possible for someone to juice, then take a year off and compete? it is possible so why are we not allowed to question ones usage or past usage?

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            • #21
              1 year???

              Out here is Oz it is between 5 and 7 years drug free to be eligable for all natural feds
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              • #22
                wnbf is 7 years which is where kurt competes
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by bodyfx2
                  Well, from those pics it DOES appear that he has gyno. That is NOT just a hard nipple! That said, there are many guys that have "natural" gyno, that has nothing to do with taking exogenous hormones. It is very possible this is the case here. Obviously only HE knows for sure whether he is natural, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt unless PROVEN otherwise.

                  Also, yes, he is looking freaking awesome...natural or not!
                  eric, look at his other pics bro
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by str8flexed
                    wnbf is 7 years which is where kurt competes
                    if thats the case, you have to believe him.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by str8flexed
                      eric, look at his other pics bro
                      I think you should look at the other pics. Look closer.

                      Although I'll give Kurt the benefit of a doubt I still think it's probably not pubertal gyno. Gyno in bodybuilders was pretty much nonexistant in the pre-steroid and early steroid era. Additionally this is not the type of breast development that fat guys get. Man-boobs usually go away when you lose weight. Maybe he has liver disease or an estrogen secreting tumor?

                      PHYSIOLOGIC GYNECOMASTIA
                      Gynecomastia, breast development in males, can occur normally during three phases of life. The first occurs shortly after birth in both males and females. This is caused by the high levels of estradiol and progesterone produced by the mother during pregnancy, which stimulates newborn breast tissue. It can persist for several weeks after birth and can cause mild breast discharge called "witch's milk" (42).Puberty marks the second situation in which gynecomastia can occur physiologically. In fact, up to 60% of boys have detectable gynecomastia by age 14. Although it is mostly bilateral, it can occur unilaterally, and usually resolves within 3 years of onset (42).
                      Interestingly, in early puberty, the pituitary gland releases gonadotropins in order to stimulate testicular production of testosterone mostly at nighttime. Estrogens, however, rise throughout the entire day. Some studies have shown that a decreased androgen to estrogen ratio exists in boys with pubertal gynecomastia when compared with boys who do not develop gynecomastia (34). Furthermore, another study showed increased aromatase activity in the skin fibroblasts of boys with gynecomastia. Thus, the mechanism by which pubertal gynecomastia occurs may be due to either decreased production of androgens or increased aromatization of circulating androgens, thus increasing the estrogen to androgen ratio (29).
                      The third age range in which gynecomastia is frequently seen is during older age (>60 years). Although the exact mechanisms by which this can occur have not been fully elucidated, evidence suggests that it may result from increased peripheral aromatase activity secondary to the increase in total body fat, coupled with mild hypogonadism associated with aging. For instance, investigators have shown increased urinary estrogen levels in obese individuals, and have demonstrated aromatase expression in adipose tissue (36). Thus, like the gynecomastia of obesity, the gynecomastia of aging may partly result from increased aromatase activity, causing increased circulating estrogen levels (7). Moreover, not only does total body fat increase with age, but there may be an increase in aromatase activity in the adipose tissue already present, increasing circulating estrogens even further. Lastly, SHBG increases with age in men. Since SHBG binds estrogen with less affinity than testosterone, the bioavailable estradiol to bioavailable testosterone ratio may increase in the obese older male.
                      http://www.endotext.org/male/male14/male14.htm

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Van Bilderass
                        I know tons of heavy juicers with much worse builds than Kurt. I'm sure you do too. And Kurt is stronger on deadlifts than the vast majority of enhanced competitive bodybuilders. So I don't know why you think this guy would for sure be much bigger than this if he had experimented with hormones. You know that there are different levels of juicing, from very short and light oral cycles to year round oral and injectable stacks. For example, Kurt could have done a few 2-3 week cycles of orals (even OTC orals like M1T or Superdrol) which then triggered gyno formation. He doesn't look like a current, heavy juicer to me, all I'm saying is that he has a tell-tale sign of having used steroids in the past.
                        Please, Now your just talkin out your ass. As Layne said, have you thought maybe he just works harder than most? And 605 x 4 on the DL is not unthinkable. I've personally done 495 x 3, traditional style DL and I'm nowhere near the level that Kurt is, and I'm also 20 years old.

                        So, take your antics somewhere else we don't want to hear em.

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                        • #27
                          I see no reason to attack Van. I don't think Van is trolling. That indeed does look like gyno to me, but I am no doctor. Van you said...

                          Gyno in bodybuilders was pretty much nonexistant in the pre-steroid and early steroid era.
                          No bodybuilder in the pre-steroid era, ever got their bodyfat as low as Kurt has in these photos.

                          How did Kurt get his bodyfat that low and look that hard without any drugs?
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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by siouxcountry
                            I see no reason to attack Van. I don't think Van is trolling. That indeed does look like gyno to me, but I am no doctor. Van you said...



                            No bodybuilder in the pre-steroid era, ever got their bodyfat as low as Kurt has in these photos.

                            How did Kurt get his bodyfat that low and look that hard without any drugs?
                            he worked his ass off, dieted for over 6 months

                            I know it's tough to understand, but natural bodybuilding has taken conditioning to the next level, we can't get ridiculously huge so we hang our hat on conditioning.

                            Look at Brian Whitacre, brian trained with Kurt for 2 years, and they both get in similar condition. but I guess it's because they are both on drugs right?

                            I get so tired of when guys look awsome they are automatically on drugs, but when they look normal they are just stick figures. guess you can't make people happy in natural bodybuilding either

                            btw, that pic of brian is him 4 weeks out... he was even leaner at the show
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                            Last edited by str8flexed; December 5th, 2006, 09:32 PM.
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                            • #29
                              I'm not a hater, Layne. I appreciate the sacrifice you top naturals endure. How many calories do you average a day to get in that unbelievable conditioning? Brian is a walking anatomy chart!
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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by str8flexed
                                eric, look at his other pics bro
                                Yeah, it is true that in some pics you don't see it. But even if it is there, that does not make him a drug user. I am accused of using drugs and know I am natty for life, which is why I certainly must give him the benefit of the doubt...as well as admit that there is no sign of gyno in most pics.
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