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  • #16
    Originally posted by Warrior View Post
    <60g of carb during the depletion week... re-feeds I eat mostly carb with protein and little fat... the day after is still high carb but at maintance calories... then a zone-type day at slightly below maintenance ending carb intake in the PM - then back into keto and depletion...
    Can you gys explain to me how you have any energy and look "full" on carbs this low? I could not get through a workout with my carbs this low. Not to mention, I'd look flat as a pancake. What gives?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Npeart View Post
      Can you gys explain to me how you have any energy and look "full" on carbs this low? I could not get through a workout with my carbs this low. Not to mention, I'd look flat as a pancake. What gives?
      Flat is just cosmetics, it doesn't look nice but if you are burning up some extra grissel then it's all good.

      I don't like the idea of long term low-carbing for active people (like bodybuilders) unless you are getting close to a show and you need really low bodyfat. But Joe Dumbbell is typically quite happy with anything sub-10 percent while maintaining hard-earned muscle. For me, I do well with a 7-Day CKD split... carbing up once a week and averagin 2 pounds of fat loss for every week I stick to the diet... some spread it out to 10-14 days...

      After you have been depleting with an intense training; inconjunction with an iso-caloric low-carb and high-fat diet... you do get worn out. I love a combined 10 grams of the essential BCAA's (leucine, isoleucine and valine) prior to training - they help pick me up; especially after a day or two of low carb intake. BCAA's are very helpful when depleted - for several reaasons.

      The day after a scheduled carb-up you will be full and ready to move a lot of weight - as long as you keep pounding carbs and limit activity on the carb loading day.
      Ramblings and gear: WarriorFX.com : 500-word winners in 2008

      Muscular Development Forum Rules :.

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      • #18
        The actual grams of carbs daily isn't as a important as the actual glycemic load for the day. Many people dont know how fat loss or fat gain really occur. Let me explain. When you eat carbohydrates they are metabolized into sugar and enter the blood stream. At that point your pancreas is signaled to release insulin. Insulin is the hormone responsible for removing the nutrients out of the blood and into the muscle cell. The best way to explain is by using this example. Picture a cell having two halves. The top half and the bottom half. The top we will call the fat cell and the bottom the muscle cell. Insulin ONLY enters the fat cell at a high enough threshold. If the threshold is not high enough the nutrients will be disposed of into the muscle cell. The same is true for fat loss. When the body is metabolizing body fat over the course of your diet you have fat circulating in the blood. As long as the insulin threshold is kept low enough your body will dispose of the circulating fat and not RE-STORE it back into the fat cell. I personally use a glucometer to monitor blood sugar to guarantee it never to raise high enough to cause a problem
        Last edited by Tipsta; June 19th, 2007, 10:46 PM.
        TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
        Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

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        • #19
          Another great trick Are GDA's. They work with insulin allowing the body to remove the same amount of blood sugar at a far lower insulin threshold. They basically supress insulin and dispose of glycogen.

          I AM DRUG FREE FOR LIFE AND ONLY USE OTC GDA'S!
          TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
          Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Tipsta View Post
            Another great trick Are GDA's. They work with insulin allowing the body to remove the same amount of blood sugar at a far lower insulin threshold. They basically supress insulin and dispose of glycogen.

            I AM DRUG FREE FOR LIFE AND ONLY USE OTC GDA'S!
            please give me a list of these gda's and serving sizes. it sounds amazing.

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            • #21
              Is this guy gonna explain where the hell "GDA's" come from - this thread is reading like an infomercial...
              Ramblings and gear: WarriorFX.com : 500-word winners in 2008

              Muscular Development Forum Rules :.

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              • #22
                Anssi,

                On page 50 of Iron Man magazine December 2007 it appears an article written by Becky Holman which says: POST WORKOUT CARBS WON`T FEED YOUR FAT CELLS. RESEARCHERS TESTED WHAT HAPPENED WHEN SUBJECTS GOT A 100 GRAM DOSE OF HIGH GLYCEMIC INDEX CARBS IMMEDIATELY AFTER A HIGH EXERCISE SESSION AND IT ACTUALLY INCREASED FAT BURNING. This statement would bring as a consequence that it`s not necessary to make a ketogenic diet to lose fat, what`s your opinion on this?

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                • #23
                  Good. question.
                  Also, what the hell are "GDAs"??

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by palchod View Post
                    Good. question.
                    Also, what the hell are "GDAs"??

                    Read the sticky thread in the performance section.
                    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
                    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      The actual grams of carbs daily isn't as a important as the actual glycemic load for the day. Many people dont know how fat loss or fat gain really occur. Let me explain. When you eat carbohydrates they are metabolized into sugar and enter the blood stream. At that point your pancreas is signaled to release insulin. Insulin is the hormone responsible for removing the nutrients out of the blood and into the muscle cell. The best way to explain is by using this example. Picture a cell having two halves. The top half and the bottom half. The top we will call the fat cell and the bottom the muscle cell. Insulin ONLY enters the fat cell at a high enough threshold. If the threshold is not high enough the nutrients will be disposed of into the muscle cell. The same is true for fat loss. When the body is metabolizing body fat over the course of your diet you have fat circulating in the blood. As long as the insulin threshold is kept low enough your body will dispose of the circulating fat and not RE-STORE it back into the fat cell. I personally use a glucometer to monitor blood sugar to guarantee it never to raise high enough to cause a problem
                      If I am understanding this correctly, you would want your blood sugar levels to stay at the optimal 90 to 110 range after a meal especially to promote the carb (sugar) to be used or taken into the Muscle section not the fat section. Being a type one diabetic this would mean that my insuline levels post meal are even more important for muscle growth and the avoidance of stored fat? Otherwise that sugar in my bloodstream will be used or stored as fat?

                      Riff
                      Riff

                      Doing it one pound at a time!!!!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Riff View Post
                        If I am understanding this correctly, you would want your blood sugar levels to stay at the optimal 90 to 110 range after a meal especially to promote the carb (sugar) to be used or taken into the Muscle section not the fat section. Being a type one diabetic this would mean that my insuline levels post meal are even more important for muscle growth and the avoidance of stored fat? Otherwise that sugar in my bloodstream will be used or stored as fat?

                        Riff

                        90 to 110 is baseline after you have removed the sugar. 160 to about 200 is what you want 1/2 hour after meal.
                        TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
                        Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          GDA's

                          GDA= Glucose Disposal Agents

                          Alpha Lipoic Acid*
                          Chromium Picoliconate*
                          Cinnamon*
                          Gynnema Sylvestre
                          Vanadyle Sulfate


                          * I have used these particulars before, work well with refeed meals by preventing spill over, bloat, headaches, sleepiness, lethary from the huge carb intake. I never go without them for refeed purposes.

                          PS....I go about 150 grams tops when going for max fat loss, carbs taken in only at breakfast, pre and post workout, all complex. I also do weekly or even bi-weekly refeed nights when dieting. Never liked the idea of Keto dieting, no way!
                          MS - Human Sport Performance
                          NSCA - CPT, CSCS

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                          • #28
                            why not ketogenic diet

                            Originally posted by oregonpanthers View Post
                            GDA= Glucose Disposal Agents

                            Alpha Lipoic Acid*
                            Chromium Picoliconate*
                            Cinnamon*
                            Gynnema Sylvestre
                            Vanadyle Sulfate


                            * I have used these particulars before, work well with refeed meals by preventing spill over, bloat, headaches, sleepiness, lethary from the huge carb intake. I never go without them for refeed purposes.

                            PS....I go about 150 grams tops when going for max fat loss, carbs taken in only at breakfast, pre and post workout, all complex. I also do weekly or even bi-weekly refeed nights when dieting. Never liked the idea of Keto dieting, no way!
                            Oregonpanthers: why not a ketogenic diet, could you tell me the disadvantages?What`s your opinion about emptying glucogen for 3 days?

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                            • #29
                              I am not nessesarily against Keto diets in general. For some they work very well and they swear by there effectiveness. I myself have found I dont process higher fat diets as well as they can. It may be metabolic factors of uncoupling proteins, fatty acid metabolism and oxidation or a host of other physiological differences that just do not work to my advantage. I have went through 7-8 weeks Keto diets before and gotten no better results then I had with equal duration diets when low carbs were consumed (150g max per day). I feel I have more training energy on the lower carbs as well compared to Keto dieting.

                              I do however give me vote to the depleating tactic used for 2-3 days pre contest by many bodybuilders before a contest. For my sake and that of my clients this traditional approach of 2-3 days depletion and then 2-3 days loading is a good rule of thumb to stick to. Again, for some it works,for others it does not.
                              MS - Human Sport Performance
                              NSCA - CPT, CSCS

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Training Low carbs Vs High carbs.

                                Originally posted by oregonpanthers View Post
                                I am not nessesarily against Keto diets in general. For some they work very well and they swear by there effectiveness. I myself have found I dont process higher fat diets as well as they can. It may be metabolic factors of uncoupling proteins, fatty acid metabolism and oxidation or a host of other physiological differences that just do not work to my advantage. I have went through 7-8 weeks Keto diets before and gotten no better results then I had with equal duration diets when low carbs were consumed (150g max per day). I feel I have more training energy on the lower carbs as well compared to Keto dieting.

                                I do however give me vote to the depleating tactic used for 2-3 days pre contest by many bodybuilders before a contest. For my sake and that of my clients this traditional approach of 2-3 days depletion and then 2-3 days loading is a good rule of thumb to stick to. Again, for some it works,for others it does not.
                                oregonpanthers.When you are on diet low in carbs the type of training I assume is different to when you are on a diet high in carbs.
                                Training on a low carb-diet: reps between 6-12, sets for big muscles from 12-16, rests between series : 60-120 seconds, no tri-sets, no drop sets, eventually forced sets, negative reps, trainings shouldn`t be more than an hour, training with lifts: between 4-5 times a week.
                                Training with high carbs: when having more energetic sources reps can be higher, there can be super series, tri-series, recovery is higher, there`s more amount of muscular glucogen.
                                I ask you cause in the gym where I am people who train and want to lose fat, for instance in a definition program they train more and eat less which I think doesn`t make sense, I`d like to have your opinion cause my focus is of a natural body builder, I don`t use steroids.I think this way the game is much more difficult (excuse my ignorance, but for what I`ve seen, steroids many times hide many failures of training and nutrition. Thanks.

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