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  • Women Havoc yay or nay???

    Hey everyone, I'm the crystal part of brad crystal, Im 23/female. I would like some input on primaforce havoc. Thinking about doing 10mg for 30 days, responded well to 25 mg winstrol for 30 days, and also what should i follow this up with pct? Thanks it's about time we have our own site.

  • #2
    ? What sound does a horse make? There's your answer.

    IMO to heavy of an androgen for a women.... You can if you want but why risk your looks....
    http://www.blacklionresearch.com/

    WORLD PHARM =

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    • #3
      Women don't need PCT but I think generally the non-real AAS are very hard on the system and if you're going to go there, better to go w/ a good var cycle or something instead. Otherwise get a good liver detox supp w/ it.

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      • #4
        Thanks for the advice, definitely not running for more than 30 days. Our research shows it is toxic, probably wont rough me up more than a little anadrol for the guys. i may only do 5 mg, if i feel too many sides or stop. But we've read 5 mg is good for women without too many androgenic side effects. It's androgenic 91 anabolic 1100. I guess I was just hoping some woman had tried it. I guess I'm the guinea pig and let you women who may be interested whats up with it. But i definitely appreciate the advice.

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        • #5
          IDK if havoc would be good for a woman or not, but it's very mild. Not even compareable to anadrol in any way shape or form. Yes some legal steroids have been/are pretty toxic, just like some illegal steroids are very toxic, but havoc is not one of them. I always recommend it for a first time cycle. Not as weak as haladrol but very low on sides if any at all. I have heard some compare havoc to wini, but ofcourse that's affect wise in the gym, and not what it could do to a woman.

          How do you plan on 5mgs dosing? The pills are 10mgs.

          Def let us know what's up.
          PanterA is a fictional character for entertainment purposes only.

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          • #6
            Thanks Mr P have heard the same. Its good to lean up on that's the goal.It is supposed to have an anti-estrogenic effect. On paper it looks better than WIN less water for gals.It is a 17 a methyl so we were just joking about the a50, cant be any worse. On paper its about 3 times as strong as WIN andro=30/anabolic320 havoc andro=91/anabolic1100. Its not supposed to be very androgenic at low doses but who knows that is the question. And i dont know about the 5mgs, what a pain i may recap them but its not gonna be easy. I may just half the powder individually or weigh it and cap it or, mix it in a solution and meter it that way. what do you think Panter A. Thanks for your help.

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            • #7
              Well IDK that's why I was asking you

              A solution would be the best bet, but I'm not sure how much you will get to disolve considering you will be mixing fillers in with the active compound... You might have to take a shot to get 5 grams is what I'm saying.... IDK know though.
              PanterA is a fictional character for entertainment purposes only.

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              • #8
                First of all, there is not much out there, experience wise, on Epistane and women, so anything I say is simply conclusions drawn from an understanding of the drug and it's effects on the human physiology.

                Epistane (Havoc), like PanterA said, is a mild steroid.

                Of all the oral steroids avaliable to women, this one is one of the best, as far as anabolic to androgenic effect. It is also very mild on the liver in comparison to almost all other AAS, not being too far off from Anavar.

                It is not a DHT derived AAS, so hair loss, at least theoretically, should be minimal. It does not aromatize and appears to have anti-estrogenic effects.

                Epistane should give more muscle and strength gains than Anavar, as well.

                Due to it's potency per mg, I would not advise a woman start with anymore than 5-10 mg/day...probably on the lower end until a tolerance is asessed. This drug does not need to be dosed as high as Winstrol due to a more potent anabolic effect per mg, so lower dosing is still effective.

                I was recommending this AAS years ago to some certain women who had used Anavar and Winstrol beforehand. To my knowledge, they experienced a lesser degree of hair loss in comparison to Winstrol.

                This steroid, when dosed in these small amounts, should turn out to be one of the safest AAS for a woman's use, at least according to what we know about steroids and how they act in the body.

                Epistane should give only lean, water free gains similar to winstrol, but greater per mg.

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                • #9
                  thanks again definitely for extra info. I may try 10 and play it by ear. Since it's oral, i'll do it on a day to day basis to acess tolerance and just discontinue if any bad side effects. Does this sound good, since its oral once u stop it should clear the system rather quickly? but will keep posted.

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                  • #10
                    Yeah it will clear the system pretty quickly.

                    If you do this def keep us updated. Whether it's here or you start another thread... Here would be best IMO so those who read this because they're interested can see what others were saying, and then see how your experience went...
                    PanterA is a fictional character for entertainment purposes only.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Brad Crystal View Post
                      Im 23/female.

                      There's your answer right there IMO.

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                      • #12
                        Sorry i hav'nt posted anything, but been on for two weeks tomorrow april 11th. No sides so far. Still need more time to acess this compound. Hopefully it will not have an accumulative effect. A few more weeks and we should know if it is too androgenic. So far it is working good. metabolism is up dropped some water (maybe due to the anti- estrogen effect), increase in body temperature, increase in glycogen retention, muscles are getting much harder, overall harder and leaner. But i am following a very strict diet. i eat every two hours CLEAN! good cardio 45 minutes 6 times a week circuit or weight training 4 times a week. Let you guys and gals know more next week. Seems to be working faster than Win.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Brad Crystal View Post
                          Sorry i hav'nt posted anything, but been on for two weeks tomorrow april 11th. No sides so far. Still need more time to acess this compound. Hopefully it will not have an accumulative effect. A few more weeks and we should know if it is too androgenic. So far it is working good. metabolism is up dropped some water (maybe due to the anti- estrogen effect), increase in body temperature, increase in glycogen retention, muscles are getting much harder, overall harder and leaner. But i am following a very strict diet. i eat every two hours CLEAN! good cardio 45 minutes 6 times a week circuit or weight training 4 times a week. Let you guys and gals know more next week. Seems to be working faster than Win.

                          You are getting the typical results and it does not surprise me that it is working faster than Winny, as it is more potent per mg, considerably, while also being less androgenic per mg.

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                          • #14
                            thank you for the reply mike! its definitely strong. I woke up sunday morning and had shoulders, it's like christmas. Took a cheat meal saturday night and it seems like ive retained alot of muscle glycogen. (as to be expected). Felt like my muscles have been super pumped all sunday and today(monday).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Brad Crystal View Post
                              thank you for the reply mike! its definitely strong. I woke up sunday morning and had shoulders, it's like christmas. Took a cheat meal saturday night and it seems like ive retained alot of muscle glycogen. (as to be expected). Felt like my muscles have been super pumped all sunday and today(monday).

                              I have long felt that Epistane may very well be one of the most effective and safest AAS for the side effect conscious female AAS user.

                              Not only is Epistane considerably more potent per mg on paper and in the real world than drugs like Anavar, Primo, Boldenone, Nandrolone and even Testosterone, it's androgenic effect is not much greater than Var and is lower than Winstrol.

                              It has yet to be seen how women in general respond to Epi, but should the androgenic sides be comparable to Var over the long haul in the real world, as they are on paper (or only slightly greater), while giving a significantly greater muscle building effect, it may very well become one of the greatest weapons a side effect conscious female BB'rs has in her arsenal, either for off-season or pre-contest prep.

                              In comparison to Winstrol, not only is does it supply a more pronounced anabolic effect, but it's androgenic component should be significantly less pronounced for many women, due to the fact that the effective dose of Epi is so low.

                              As far as AAS go, Epi may very well be deserving of a much greater place in a woman's AAS protocol and we will hopefully find out as more women become aware of this drug's effect in women.

                              Epi should also bring about more dramatic changes in muscle size than several AAS when used over 4-8 week periods.

                              In men, Epi regulary gives more lean muscle growth over a 4 week period than Boldenone, Nandrolone, Oxandrolone (Anavar), Stanozolol (Winstrol), and Methenolone (Primo) and sometimes even Testosterone. Gains of 7-10 lb's of lean, dry muscle are not uncommon.


                              Another advanatge to Epi is it's relatively benign toxicity level for an oral, with cycles being relatively liver safe when run for up to 6-8 weeks, especially because a woman's effective dose is lower. Most designers should not be run longer than 30 days due to high toxicity levels, but Epi varries in this regard.


                              I am very interested to hear of your progress, both muscle gains wise and side effects wise. Please keep us posted, so that other women may learn from your experience and know whether or not this drug is an avenue worth exploring.

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