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Surgical spirit & trenbolone - bad idea??

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    This is not true, as some women don't seem to get the same sides as others. Not every women will get "all" the various visual virilizing sides, as you suggest.

    Just like some men never grow facial hair due to their genetics, despite normal levels of testosterone....or how some men never lose their hair regardless of how much AAS they use....or how some men never grow hair on their back or shoulders despite an excessively high androgen level, it is no different with women. Some women will remain devoid of certain types of masculinization due to their particular genetic propensities.

    Not everyone is the same and different women will get different sides. Sure, Tren at that dose continuously used is sure to speed up and maximize virilization, but even then all women are unique and will respond in turn.
    While I agree with you and respect your knowledge, I find this slightly misleading. Men who don't grow facial hair are either of a certain race, or WAY outside the population mean. In the population mean you will find all men growing facial hair, just at different rates.

    I think it would be misleading for any woman to think that they will not eventually get SOME LEVEL of virilization in all the major areas with AAS. The rare cases that do not are not inside the population mean, and should not be considered relative examples.

    There is a lot of denial about sides in both men and women. The biochemistry of it is simple and straight forward. There are androgens, there are androgen receptors, some people have more or less of them in various tissues, but they are there. Example, sure some women have naturally thin hair and it might take a long time before any difference is noticable, but eventually it will be. Another example, men think eventually their natty test will come back completely after taking AAS, it will never come back to 100%, no matter what PCT. You might get to 98% after just one cycle, but it won't be 100%. There are exceptions to both of these examples, however I am confident the exceptions are outside of the population mean.

    I fully support women using AAS (and men for that matter) but I just want to be as honest as possible about the sides.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by SisterSteel View Post
      I honestly have no clue what to do with you Gunsblazin. You are either yanking my chain here, or actually, to my utter dismay, very much in your right mind. ...which is alright considering I am pro choice and glad to offer advice and guidance where I can.

      On a serious note, Are you in the process of gender reassignment? If not, then please tell me this: do you dance in a gentlemen's club, or a gay club? Why are you using tren anyway? What kind of shape are you in? just because you dance a pole doesn't automatically imply you are in good shape.

      What the hell is surgical spirit? Is that some stripper concoction replacement for anal lubricants? If I can pull 4 times your bodyweight daily off a platform with my bare hands for free, and not need so much as a strap, then I think you should be fine swinging from your trapeze for a night for pay. If you don't mind the little cock you have sprouting, then I think you can learn to live with rough hands. Unless you offer handjobs as a part time service, then I would recommend shaving down your calluses periodically and a moisturizer.

      Hope that was helpful!

      SS
      Unless you've poledanced yourself, you won't realise what it does to hands. It's not a case of just a bit sore or rough hands, the skin blisters & falls off & it becomes impossible to dance. Surgical spirit is used to harden the skin & encourage callouses to form, but I've recently discovered it contains phthalates which are anti-androgenic.

      I learned to poledance for fun, I've just got myself a gig as a cabaret performer at a metrosexual club night. I never said anything about being a stripper. I'm in ok shape, not contest lean, not fat either.

      I'm not a troll, not yanking anyone's chain. I'm using tren to get bigger, my goal is to have a physique like Renne Toney. Of course I hope I never go bald or get ugly, but I went into AAS usage with an open mind that these things could potentially happen, but it was a risk I was prepared to take to get the biggest, strongest arms humanly possible.

      And the little cock isn't like a real penis, you can't piss out of it, it's just a slightly enlarged clit. I can't see anyone minding this. I obsess about what my muscles look like, but hell I hope I'm never vain enough to obsess about the aesthetics of my genetalia!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Kaladryn View Post
        While I agree with you and respect your knowledge, I find this slightly misleading. Men who don't grow facial hair are either of a certain race, or WAY outside the population mean. In the population mean you will find all men growing facial hair, just at different rates.
        The point was that different men, depending on getnetics, will grow facial hair at various rates, regardless of androgen level.
        I think it would be misleading for any woman to think that they will not eventually get SOME LEVEL of virilization in all the major areas with AAS.
        Sure, "some" level of androgenic sides are likely after moderate steroid use, but you said "all" virilizing sides are unavoidable. I simply said that not "all" women will experience "all" virilizing sides, which is a true statement. It all depends on type, dose, duration of use and genetics.

        Certainly, a women who uses low dose var for 5-6 short cycles is exceedingly unlikely (about impossible) to experience anything like masculinization of the skull (brow, jaw, etc) and some women will appear to be lacking in any several (if not all) of the visual virilizing sides after a few cycles of low dose Var.

        In additon, hair loss, voice changes, hair growth and many of the other potential virilizing sides will not be present in a fair percentage of women using low dose Var. This drug was developed for women and children for the specific purpose of avpoiding these side effects.

        Sure some women do experience oputward sides with Var, but nothing what would be considered extreme.

        The type of drug is exceedingly important, as well as dose. Drugs like test and tren are much more likely to garner those types of sides, but drugs like Var, Primo and even Epi are much more unlikely. In fact, some low dose AAS will equate to a lower androgenic punch than what a woman's natural Test level will give.

        To say that every woman will experience "ALL" the virilizing sides with any AAS just isn't accurtae. Like yourself, I appreciate your posts, but there have been far to many women who have not displayed several virilizing sides through AAS use.

        Many of the masculinizing effects can be avoided with certain types of AAS in women and have been avoided on many occasions.

        The rare cases that do not are not inside the population mean, and should not be considered relative examples.
        There are MANY cases of women who do not experience "ALL" the various masculinizing sides.
        There is a lot of denial about sides in both men and women. The biochemistry of it is simple and straight forward. There are androgens, there are androgen receptors, some people have more or less of them in various tissues, but they are there. Example, sure some women have naturally thin hair and it might take a long time before any difference is noticable, but eventually it will be.
        In regards to hair, it depends on the drug, dose and duration. For many women, hair loss is not inevitable.

        Also, you speak about androgen receptors and you are correct in saying androgens will attach to them and exert their androgenic effects. It is the same with primarily anabolics steroids (AAS that are very weak androgens). Steroids that have an exceptionally weak androgenic component can actually result in a lower degree of androgenicity than a woman's natural T level. Women that use AAS and keep their total androgenic payload inside or slightly outside of what would be considered normal are unlikely to experience any androgenic effects (such as low dose var or epistane use).

        Another example, men think eventually their natty test will come back completely after taking AAS, it will never come back to 100%, no matter what PCT. You might get to 98% after just one cycle, but it won't be 100%. There are exceptions to both of these examples, however I am confident the exceptions are outside of the population mean.
        This has to do with HPTA suppression, not virilizing side effects, which are 2 completely different things. One has to do with HPTA suppression and recovery and one has to do with androgenic effects. Slin abuse works the same way, as far as suppressing fruther natty slin production, but we wouldn't compare that to masculinizing effects that could be brought on by AAS use.

        I fully support women using AAS (and men for that matter) but I just want to be as honest as possible about the sides.
        I agree and many women will avoid many of the potential androgenic sides, depending on genetics, type of AAS, duration, and dose. It is easily posssible to keep the total androgenic payload down to very low levels. Not even close to every woman will experience every masculinizing side when using AAS.
        Last edited by Mike Arnold; June 1st, 2010, 05:31 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by SisterSteel View Post
          Before I die I want to see a stripper on tren with a miniature cock work a pole like it's nobody's business. That is my dying wish.

          I'll bear that in mind if I get short of cash!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Mike Arnold View Post
            I read that link....doesn't sound like a very good idea....at all.
            Well it looks like my thread evoked a lot of interest! No answers to my question, although I think I may have found one.

            Surgical spirit's main & possibly most active ingredient seems to be methylated spirits, so I shall be buying a bottle of methylated spirits today & I'll keep you guys updated on whether it works, as I obviously don't want to use any product containing phthaltes on my skin.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Mike Arnold View Post
              I agree and many women will avoid many of the potential androgenic sides, depending on genetics, type of AAS, duration, and dose. It is easily posssible to keep the total androgenic payload down to very low levels. Not even close to every woman will experience every masculinizing side when using AAS.
              I agree with you on an observational level, in my observation I have seen women who didn't seem to get certain effects at all. However on a scientific level, I know there are receptors being stimulated and there are effects taking place, I think these effects are sometimes too small to measure, or notice. If you increase the duration or strength of AAS enough, they will come to light in the vast majority.

              I could be wrong however, I'm certainly no expert. I'm curious how Sassy and SS feel about general concept.

              In those examples from my post, I wasn't comparing HTPA suppression to virilizing sides in any way other than how we BBers can be denial about the consequences of our actions.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Kaladryn View Post
                I agree with you on an observational level, in my observation I have seen women who didn't seem to get certain effects at all. However on a scientific level, I know there are receptors being stimulated and there are effects taking place, I think these effects are sometimes too small to measure, or notice. If you increase the duration or strength of AAS enough, they will come to light in the vast majority.
                Of course, androgen receptors will be stimulated in accordance with what is being administered, as I have stated that myself several times in prior posts from other threads. But...this is always occuring anyway, as women produce test of their own. Depending on what is used and the dose, it is possible to keep the total androgenic effect within or slightly outside of normal female limits. Will this stimulate more androgen receptors than before they began? Sure, but there is a threshold at which point certain sides begin to appear. Keeping the androgen level at or slightly above normal will not yield very many visual changes in the large majority of users...even over a fairly long period of time.

                For instance, women will always produce a certain amount of T throughout their lives, but they will never grow a full beard (maybe the rare, unfortunate few) or see masculinizing effects in their skull. The androgen receptors are being stimulated, but they have not crossed the threshold for instigating certain types of virilizing sides.

                In both men and women, which varries from person to person, there are thresholds which must be crossed in order for the andrognic payload to become high enough to "turn on" or "put in progress" particular effects.

                For example: A women's T production over 20 years may equal the total androgenic equivalent of one cycle of Tren ace, but the 20 years of androgenic T stimulation will not cause any facial hair growth, but a one time Tren ace cycle might. Why? A threshold was crossed where the androgenic payload was high enough to "turn on" certain sides.

                Of course, the above numbers were just examples and could be off...probably are...but you get the point.
                I could be wrong however, I'm certainly no expert. I'm curious how Sassy and SS feel about general concept.

                In those examples from my post, I wasn't comparing HTPA suppression to virilizing sides in any way other than how we BBers can be denial about the consequences of our actions.
                ...........

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                • #23
                  Gunsblazin - don't know how long you've been on that dose of tren - I would recommend you get blood work done because the dose is a bit ridiculous. Just because its cheap doesnt' mean you should keep running it. Most people cycle their stuff or at least cycle on and off different things. You should also probably expect to hit a point if you're running long cycles where you start to hold water like a seacow from it. At least then you should come off for a while.

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                  • #24
                    This is my first post in the females section, but I guess if you want to use 50mg tren/day that's cool. But as for your question, could you possibly use gloves? ...
                    www.LiftingStrapsAndGangstaRap.com

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