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2010 Arnold Prejudging Comparisons Video: Armchair judges, this is for you!

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  • #61
    Originally posted by mayor of bodybuilding View Post
    Sure they owe the people who paid to see the contest! Phil Was Big,Full and much improved! The IFBB is all about Freaky size and Improvements and Phil Fits This Category!
    Originally posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    I agree 100%. This is not a dictatorship and the fans have damn right to know how and why decisions are being made, so the Judges very much do owe us an explanation.
    Let me know when yall get one...lol
    JOIN my health transformation challenge
    www dot flexwithdrexfor90days dot bodybyvi dot com

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    • #62
      Originally posted by rob9439 View Post
      u said it yourself bro kai had him on a few front and rear lats are power moves big scorers if u dominate someone in those areas like they say he who has the best back wins
      I disagree with that. Whoever has the fewest weakness that day on stage and has the most complete/balanced physique top to bottom should win.

      Kai was good, but he just didn't have the conditioning everywhere. I mean his quads/hams are razor ripped no matter what, just b/c his quads were on doesn't mean his abs were sharp, or his arms from the front had insane separation.

      Phil was ripped and showed detail, dryness and great condition in every muscle group from every pose.

      If mass and "back shots" were all that counted, why even have the other rounds (symmetry round which should really be called proportion round) and have the other mandatory poses?
      "I'd rather be dead than average" - Mike Maddog Bell

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      • #63
        Originally posted by oldtimmy View Post
        does anyone think that phil needed some oil and darker color?
        Hell yes, and he has to be way more professional up there and stop rubbing himself down between every fuckin pose. Man is that annoying and it detracts from his stage presence and confidence IMO. And I HATE his goof faces, wtf is that? it looks stupid.

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        • #64
          I wasn't there, so i can't tell you, but from what I've heard, the physiques can look a lot different from watching it at home or sitting in the audience. Further more, the physiques could look different depending on where in the audience you are sitting. Just compare this video to the webcast video. Its like night and day.

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          • #65
            Phil looked great at the prejudging and good at the night show! Kai looked great at the night show and good at prejudging, factor in things like leg details and thickness and Kai wins. Kai beat Dexter again in Australia too!
            Last edited by skorpyo; March 14th, 2010, 06:44 PM. Reason: Typo

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            • #66
              mike arnold you seem knowledgeable enough but i do believe you dislike Kai, it comes across in your writing. Additionally, i think you've got a bit of a man crush on Phil.

              Bottom line, 09-10 Kai won both shows and beat Heath in all of the shows including the O.

              Phil has amazing arms and has done wonders improving his back, he's an amazing BB.

              Kai's condition hasn't been as perfect because he's still growing/evolving. that being said, most top guys are evolving minus Dexter who's standing still. Kai will retain his shape but he's been improving his chest, delts, tris...as he contines w/ mid back thickness and increasing the height of his traps he'll settle in and nail down the condition again.

              his mass + zippered quads, feathered inner lats + his being Kai just makes phil what he is next to Kai...not the main event.

              You cannot remedy insertion points (phil's flexed chest MM =narrow looking), + clavicles = narrow looking, the wheels aren't close.

              if Kai is winning the majority of the mandatory poses, guess what...he wins.

              With only a few posts on this site it's become apparent you think rather highly of yourself and your own opinions. others like myself have a different viewpoint.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by cyruseven View Post
                mike arnold you seem knowledgeable enough but i do believe you dislike Kai
                True, but I have made it a point to attempt to undo my negative attitude toward him, as I don't feel to good about it.

                , it comes across in your writing. Additionally, i think you've got a bit of a man crush on Phil.
                False, I actually never even really liked Phil at all until what he showed us at the Arnold. If you had seen any of my posts prior to the Arnold, I never talked about Phil, other than if I was making critical comments.

                The fact is, Phil was awsome this year and he blew me away. The fact that I didn't particulary care for Kai made it that much easier to support Phil, although regardless of who I "like", I no doubt feel Phil was much better than kai on stage that day.

                Phil made me a fan at the Arnold and I now see Mr. Olympis written all over him. Not yet, but in a few years....after Jay retires.


                Bottom line, 09-10 Kai won both shows and beat Heath in all of the shows including the O.
                As you know, Phil was WAY off at the O', more so than Kai. Besides, the large majority opinion of this years Arnold was that Phil was better. I have a feeling that Phil is going to beat Kai this year at the O'. Kai may have defeated phil according to the Judges, but I believe Phil is the superior BB'r and it will be proven at this years O'.

                No one was expecting Phil to be so good and when that happens, the judges often times have to "adjust" to it and then they will place him higher at the next show. On the other hand, most expected Kai to be better at the Arnold...the judges included. I bet you a few of them are now questioning whether or not Kai should've won.


                Phil has amazing arms and has done wonders improving his back, he's an amazing BB.
                Yes, he is and he will only get much better, he has finally improved his chest to the point where it pretty much matches up with his physique, as well as everything else.



                Kai's condition hasn't been as perfect because he's still growing/evolving. that being said, most top guys are evolving minus Dexter who's standing still.
                I actually think Kai's all time best showing was at the 09' Australian pro and a lot of people feel likewise. I actually think kai is NOT getting better and will probabaly not improve much beyond where he is now, except through improving his conditioning.

                Phil, on the other hand, has a LOT more potential before he has to cash in his chips.


                Kai will retain his shape but he's been improving his chest, delts, tris...as he contines w/ mid back thickness and increasing the height of his traps he'll settle in and nail down the condition again.
                It seems to me that his traps are still the same size and because he hasn't been able to improve them within a year at this late in his career, he probably won't very much at all in the future.

                I don't think Kai will EVER have the chest or delts to match Cutler or will have that super thick and massive appearance that all Mr. Olympia's have to have in the front upper body.


                his mass + zippered quads, feathered inner lats + his being Kai just makes phil what he is next to Kai...not the main event.
                Most people feel differently. Have you see the poles? The LARGE majority of people feel Phil should've won, even the pros here at MD; some of them just don't want to say it because they don't want to appear to be not supporting an MD athlete, but I have heard through the grape vine that even most of them even think Phil was better.

                You cannot remedy insertion points (phil's flexed chest MM =narrow looking), + clavicles = narrow looking, the wheels aren't close.
                Actually, Wide clavicles don't make much of a difference as long as you can add enough mass. They called Flex Wheeler the most genetically gifted man ever and Flex had very narrow clavicles.

                Phil is not really considered narrow anymore. His chest is looking thicker than kais...and just as wide. His delts are getting pretty big, as well...bigger than kai's


                if Kai is winning the majority of the mandatory poses, guess what...he wins.
                Apparently, Kai is NOT winning the majority of the mandatories, as Phil won the pre-judging, which is the ONLY time they extensively compared every BB'r in every mandatory ad nauseum.

                If Phil would've held his condition longer, he would've won. He'll figure that out soon enough. That right there is the proof that Phil at his best is better than Kai...it's in the score cards and it's the Judges that gave Phil a better score when Phil was at his best, which was during pre-judging.


                With only a few posts on this site it's become apparent you think rather highly of yourself and your own opinions. others like myself have a different viewpoint.
                You are free to have your own view point. If you didn't, I would think you were seriously fucked up!

                In addition, you confuse pride with passion and intensity. There is a dramatic difference between the two and I fall into the latter category. So, before you evaluate me so fully, why don'y you read more of my posts and visist other forums (like Chem-E) where I post regulary. Perhaps there you will see that my posts in No-Bull are passion driven, not pride driven.

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                • #68
                  There are only 2 rounds in pro bodybuilding now that get scored.

                  Morning prejudging and top 6 night time comparisons/posedown.

                  each is worth 50%

                  there were 11 judges and the top 3 and bottom 3 scores are thrown out - the majority of scores which is dumb imo - maybe throw out one from the top and bottom but 3 is too many.

                  if the raw scores were counted kai would have only won by 3 points not 5.

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                  • #69
                    Wow!!

                    Originally posted by Butch Peterson View Post


                    CLICK HERE


                    This video was shot at the prejudging round. Do you agree with the judges?

                    Here is the scorecard:

                    Flex Wheeler
                    www.mexnutrition.com

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      fair enough Mike, i am new to posting in MD, i post on T-Nation from time to time. a may have prematurely jumped the gun passing judgment on you, all apologies.

                      just as some fail to see what Kai brings, i fail to see the overall in a phil health, he's incomplete to me and lacks the freaky aesthetic Kai does. to say Kai is done improving is silly however, granted he's 34 not 24 but what he's done from 2007 through now is crazy, to say he's capped out his potential is shortsighted.

                      getting big for big sake isn't wise at his size, e.g. more mass for the sake of of it, but he's an artist and will continue to add on where needed. his condition at the Grand Prix is a condition i think he'll continue to tap into as he balances his size. continues to fill out.

                      we can agree to disagree, and Phil did look great at the Arnold. to say all pros or all experts etc., feel a certain way is speculative at best.

                      Dave Palumbo and the head of the Aussie Pro, Ronnie Coleman himself have said that an ON Mr. Greene beats all, i agree with this. Kai doesn't have the width shoulder to shoulder of Jay but with both men ON i think Kai's condition makes Jay look a bit blurry...we'll have to wait and see.

                      again sorry for being new and not really being fair to you, regardless of how many posts i have, i apologize for the attacking nature of my post.

                      Good lifts to you if you train, stay anabolic and injury free.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by cyruseven View Post
                        fair enough Mike, i am new to posting in MD, i post on T-Nation from time to time. a may have prematurely jumped the gun passing judgment on you, all apologies.

                        just as some fail to see what Kai brings, i fail to see the overall in a phil health, he's incomplete to me and lacks the freaky aesthetic Kai does. to say Kai is done improving is silly however, granted he's 34 Thought he was 36? not 24 but what he's done from 2007 through now is crazy, to say he's capped out his potential is shortsighted.
                        I thought he was 36, which would put him towards the end of his game. Typically, you VERY rarely see guys improving too much beyween 36 and retirement.

                        Also, he hasn't really gotten much better between now and the 08' Arnold 2 years ago. He is no better than Last year and a lot of people feel he is actually not quite as good, being better at the 09' Australian pro.

                        getting big for big sake isn't wise at his size, e.g. more mass for the sake of of it, but he's an artist and will continue to add on where needed. his condition at the Grand Prix is a condition i think he'll continue to tap into as he balances his size. continues to fill out.
                        Kai had superior conditoon at both the 09' Arnold/Australian and the 08' Arnold.

                        we can agree to disagree, and Phil did look great at the Arnold. to say all pros or all experts etc., feel a certain way is speculative at best.
                        Of course, I'm sure Kai has his supporters, but the point I was trying to get across was that the large majority feel Phil should've won.

                        Dave Palumbo and the head of the Aussie Pro, Ronnie Coleman himself have said that an ON Mr. Greene beats all, i agree with this. Kai doesn't have the width shoulder to shoulder of Jay but with both men ON i think Kai's condition makes Jay look a bit blurry...we'll have to wait and see.
                        I have to disagree. I don't think Kai has ever been as shredded as the best conditoned guys, such as Heath or Branch (Branch's lack of seperation makes him look less conditioned in photos, but if you ever see the guy in person, he is absolutely shredded as all hell and dry as a bone.

                        I also think Cutler is better conditioned from the front than Kai. Jay is pretty damn shredded and detailed from the front. Jay's legs from the rear are always in condition, about as much as Kai's, but Kai has better back and glute condition. I think Jay will dominate at this years Olympia if his condition is as good as last years.

                        again sorry for being new and not really being fair to you, regardless of how many posts i have, i apologize for the attacking nature of my post.
                        Don't worry about it man.
                        Good lifts to you if you train, stay anabolic and injury free.
                        X2........

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by MsGuns View Post
                          Let me know when yall get one...lol
                          Head Judge Steve Weinberger explained the judging on another radio show! It was pretty good to be honest!

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                          • #73
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                            • #74
                              Kia and Phil looked great, but I feel Kai had better back and legs than Phil.

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