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Is steroid use against Christian principals??

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  • #31
    Good to see my three days away didn't curb any hypocricy on the board.......
    “War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.”
    ― George Orwell

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Brutal Master View Post
      ROFL. so your giving an example of some third world country bullshit over medically supervised extraction of embryonic cells? delusional as usual.

      you can justify anything to yourself, like all convenience christians
      I love you Chong, calm down.

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      • #33
        Im a christian... I also am a sinner.. Just wanted to ask this question to see how many people use anabolics but are considered christians. Sin is sin in God's eyes. Wether you use juice or kill somone God dosen't set sin in order from bad to worse. We will all be judged and I will be judged for using juice. I have allways used to compete. So is that any better? I wish people would tell the truth. Do you use and are you a christian. I feel most bodybuilder's believe in god. Is this true you think?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by jlj6710 View Post
          Im a christian... I also am a sinner.. Just wanted to ask this question to see how many people use anabolics but are considered christians. Sin is sin in God's eyes. Wether you use juice or kill somone God dosen't set sin in order from bad to worse. We will all be judged and I will be judged for using juice. I have allways used to compete. So is that any better? I wish people would tell the truth. Do you use and are you a christian. I feel most bodybuilder's believe in god. Is this true you think?
          You can definitely still call yourself a Christian and sin. The Bible says that you are a born sinner.

          But do you believe that when you are saved, you are always saved? Do you believe that just because you believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for the salvation of mankind, that now you can do things the Bible says not to do and still be accepted into your Heaven?

          If you do believe that, then you believe against Christian principles. Once you are saved, you are supposed to hold yourself to a higher standard. The definition of a Christian is one who lives his life as Jesus Christ would. Right? By that definition, once you are saved you should put aside these drugs in order to live your life more purely.

          Would Jesus take these drugs you are taking?
          Can you feel 100% secure in the fact that you will go to Heaven, even though you are taking drugs that make your body work in an unnatural way (which is a sin)?

          If your answer is "yes", then good luck.
          My Enhanced Journal.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Elf View Post
            You can definitely still call yourself a Christian and sin. The Bible says that you are a born sinner.

            But do you believe that when you are saved, you are always saved? Do you believe that just because you believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for the salvation of mankind, that now you can do things the Bible says not to do and still be accepted into your Heaven?

            If you do believe that, then you believe against Christian principles. Once you are saved, you are supposed to hold yourself to a higher standard. The definition of a Christian is one who lives his life as Jesus Christ would. Right? By that definition, once you are saved you should put aside these drugs in order to live your life more purely.

            Would Jesus take these drugs you are taking?
            Can you feel 100% secure in the fact that you will go to Heaven, even though you are taking drugs that make your body work in an unnatural way (which is a sin)?

            If your answer is "yes", then good luck.

            Elfster. I know you're very confident on your biblical interpretations, but do some studying on performance-based religion vs grace. It really makes what you're saying indefensible.

            EPHESIANS 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJV)
            ROMANS 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under Law but under grace. (NKJV)
            Last edited by mfcruncher; November 18th, 2010, 03:14 PM.
            "I'm tired of always being right. It gives me an unfair advantage when I debate Alemannic German speaking trolls."

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            • #36
              Originally posted by mfcruncher View Post
              Elfster. I know you're very confident on your biblical interpretations, but do some studying on performance-based religion vs grace. It really makes what you're saying indefensible.
              I've heard this before. It's kind of like saying, "I don't need to follow exactly what God says because of his grace." Yet he Flooded the Earth because we weren't listening to Him. He even destroyed Sadam and Gomorrah because we weren't listening to Him.

              He has proven time and time again in the Bible that if we don't follow his will, then we're fucked.

              You're just justifying yourself with the fact that God might have a little bit of grace and mercy.
              My Enhanced Journal.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Elf View Post
                I've heard this before. It's kind of like saying, "I don't need to follow exactly what God says because of his grace." Yet he Flooded the Earth because we weren't listening to Him. He even destroyed Sadam and Gomorrah because we weren't listening to Him.

                He has proven time and time again in the Bible that if we don't follow his will, then we're fucked.

                You're just justifying yourself with the fact that God might have a little bit of grace and mercy.

                I'm not going to argue what you don't know. Let's simplify this. What does the discussion Paul makes about "food sacrificed to idols" tell us? This was a gray area, not about homosexuality or murder, but a gray area that isn't specifically addressed by the Word. What does it tell us? What did Paul say?

                If you can answer that correctly, then you can answer this steroid question accurately.

                (the best way to study it is google on line at Mathew-Henry's commentary) Do you need me to tell you where it is in the NT?
                "I'm tired of always being right. It gives me an unfair advantage when I debate Alemannic German speaking trolls."

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by mfcruncher View Post
                  I'm not going to argue what you don't know. Let's simplify this. What does the discussion Paul makes about "food sacrificed to idols" tell us? This was a gray area, not about homosexuality or murder, but a gray area that isn't specifically addressed by the Word. What does it tell us? What did Paul say?

                  If you can answer that correctly, then you can answer this steroid question accurately.

                  (the best way to study it is google on line at Mathew-Henry's commentary) Do you need me to tell you where it is in the NT?
                  It's in Romans or something..
                  Paul's point was that it is not necessarily wrong to eat food sacrificed to idols, but it should be avoided because it could lead other Christians to sin.

                  Even though eating food that is sacrificed to idols is not wrong, it is wrong to worship idols.. It is wrong to eat sacrificed meat in order to worship an idol.. But if you eat what is given to you, or you purchase meat that was sacrificed then it is okay.

                  It sounded to me like a justification of Christian Communion.

                  Romans 14:14
                  As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself.

                  So... If you do something for a 'bad' reason, then it is wrong.. But if you do something for a reason of good, then it is okay..

                  Looking in another direction, it sounds to me like: If you make an accident, it's okay in God's eye.

                  I don't know what else you can draw from this.. Maybe you can clear it up?
                  Last edited by Elf; November 18th, 2010, 04:14 PM.
                  My Enhanced Journal.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Elf View Post
                    It's in Romans or something..
                    Paul's point was that it is not necessarily wrong to eat food sacrificed to idols, but it should be avoided because it could lead other Christians to sin.

                    Even though eating food that is sacrificed to idols is not wrong, it is wrong to worship idols.. It is wrong to eat sacrificed meat in order to worship an idol.. But if you eat what is given to you, or you purchase meat that was sacrificed then it is okay.

                    It sounded to me like a justification of Christian Communion.

                    Romans 14:14
                    As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself.

                    So... If you do something for a 'bad' reason, then it is wrong.. But if you do something for a reason of good, then it is okay..

                    Looking in another direction, it sounds to me like: If you make an accident, it's okay in God's eye.

                    I don't know what else you can draw from this.. Maybe you can clear it up?
                    You're interpretation is almost correct. Did you notice that it all depended on the conscience or "weak" conscience? Paul didn't attempt to criminalize either party.

                    The larger issue is God made each of us unique and for different purposes. God speaks through our heart(or conscience). For some people, being a missionary is in obedience to God. For them not to be a missionary would be a sin. We cannot say that all people who aren't missionaries are in sin and that God is just letting the sin slip by, as you suggest. Some had problems with food sacrificed to idols. Some didn't. The point was that in issues where there is not an obvious intepretation, we are to follow our conscience.

                    Paul urges us not to get married so that we may devote more of ourselves to God. Was there a wrong or right answer about marriage? no. Does that sound like if you get married you're sinning but it's ok anyways? no

                    There are obvious sins of rebellion. The reason there are what we call "gray areas" are actually interpretations of each individuals conscience/heart and their relationship to God. You can't queer that.

                    Therefore, you are in complete error to sugget that issues such as this(steroid use) are black and white. This is not the same sort of subject as homosexuality, murder, adultery, idolatry etc. These sins are black and white.

                    Finally, the scriptures you introduced were taken out of context and I showed you that scripturally. Do you have a response to your mistaken interpretations on those scriptures?
                    Last edited by mfcruncher; November 18th, 2010, 04:41 PM.
                    "I'm tired of always being right. It gives me an unfair advantage when I debate Alemannic German speaking trolls."

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by mfcruncher View Post
                      You're interpretation is almost correct. Did you notice that it all depended on the conscience or "weak" conscience? Paul didn't attempt to criminalize either party.

                      The larger issue is God made each of us unique and for different purposes. God speaks through our heart(or conscience). For some people, being a missionary is in obedience to God. For them not to be a missionary would be a sin. We cannot say that all people who aren't missionaries are in sin and that God is just letting the sin slip by, as you suggest. Some had problems with food sacrificed to idols. Some didn't. The point was that in issues where there is not an obvious intepretation, we are to follow our conscience.

                      Paul urges us not to get married so that we may devote more of ourselves to God. Was there a wrong or right answer about marriage? no. Does that sound like if you get married you're sinning but it's ok anyways? no

                      There are obvious sins of rebellion. The reason there are what we call "gray areas" are actually interpretations of each individuals conscience/heart and their relationship to God. You can't queer that.

                      Therefore, you are in complete error to sugget that issues such as this(steroid use) are black and white. This is not the same sort of subject as homosexuality, murder, adultery, idolatry etc. These sins are black and white.

                      Finally, the scriptures you introduced were taken out of context and I showed you that scripturally. Do you have a response to your mistaken interpretations on those scriptures?
                      This is why your religion is so weird to me.
                      You don't listen to God... You listen to some guys, like Paul.. You seek guidance from a person who makes good points, but isn't 100% correct with everything he says.. Like his view of marriage.


                      1. God made us the way we are, to function the way we do - naturally, not artificially. - ( Psalm 139 )
                      2. God did make everybody different, for different reasons, to do different things... But according to Psalm, God did not create us to take drugs like AAS. How am I taking that out of context? How am I misinterpreting that?

                      This could be a better discussion if it had to do with weed.. Beacuse weed is naturally occurring.. Like alcohol. But AAS is not in the same category as a naturally occurring herb or a fermented fruit. AAS are synthetic drugs to make your body operate in a way you want it to. God did not create AAS like he created herbs or alcohol.

                      This particualr subject seems very, very black and white to me.
                      My Enhanced Journal.

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                      • #41
                        I do not usually sink to the level of arguing fictitious Bronze Age literature, but christians believe what they want to believe and what suites them..........hence if they want to use performance enhancing drugs, they will, as long as they praise their lord afterwards of course.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by mfcruncher View Post
                          You're interpretation is almost correct. Did you notice that it all depended on the conscience or "weak" conscience? Paul didn't attempt to criminalize either party.

                          The larger issue is God made each of us unique and for different purposes. God speaks through our heart(or conscience). For some people, being a missionary is in obedience to God. For them not to be a missionary would be a sin. We cannot say that all people who aren't missionaries are in sin and that God is just letting the sin slip by, as you suggest. Some had problems with food sacrificed to idols. Some didn't. The point was that in issues where there is not an obvious intepretation, we are to follow our conscience.

                          Paul urges us not to get married so that we may devote more of ourselves to God. Was there a wrong or right answer about marriage? no. Does that sound like if you get married you're sinning but it's ok anyways? no

                          There are obvious sins of rebellion. The reason there are what we call "gray areas" are actually interpretations of each individuals conscience/heart and their relationship to God. You can't queer that.

                          Therefore, you are in complete error to sugget that issues such as this(steroid use) are black and white. This is not the same sort of subject as homosexuality, murder, adultery, idolatry etc. These sins are black and white.

                          Finally, the scriptures you introduced were taken out of context and I showed you that scripturally. Do you have a response to your mistaken interpretations on those scriptures?

                          Thank you for saying this, as I you find much better words then me.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by mfcruncher View Post
                            Problem with skeptics is they don't read the entire chapter.
                            [/B].
                            Bingo
                            ROMANS 8:11 TITUS 3:9

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by wildman536 View Post
                              Bingo
                              Not bingo... I just answered MF's question and am awaiting a response from him.. I would welcome you to respond to Post #37, #38, and #40 in this thread. I'm not trying to discredit your beliefs, I just want to know why you want to justify drug abuse as a Christian.
                              My Enhanced Journal.

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                              • #45
                                Good points here from both sides
                                All statements made herein are fictional and are solely for entertainment purposes

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