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Is steroid use against Christian principals??

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  • #91
    Originally posted by ricardomrivera View Post
    some parts of Scripture are open to interpretation. let me know when you catch up...not everything is figured out. not even biblical Scholars have all the answers.
    There are no answers to things that aren't real.
    My Enhanced Journal.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
      Does the Bible specifically say which parts are open to interpretation? If not then you are making assumptions and other parts that maybe you don't think are open to interpretations seem that way to other people.
      the Bible is pretty clear cut on certain subjects regarding right and wrong. others take extensive study.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by RedForemanRules View Post
        There are no answers to things that aren't real.
        i dont have time for this. obviously you've made your choice. im just answering your posts. you have to do better than this. at least act like your interested in civil debate, my friend.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by ricardomrivera View Post
          i dont have time for this. obviously you've made your choice. im just answering your posts. you have to do better than this. at least act like your interested in civil debate, my friend.
          Firstly, I get you and Glock confused.

          You're a good poster. I apologize.

          I just don't feel like talking about this subject anymore. You and MF are both on the same side and gave different responses. I don't think I can say much more for my side.. You said it for me.
          My Enhanced Journal.

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          • #95
            All I know is the bible must allow you to hire prostitutes, gay and straight, because these pastors do it all the time.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by RedForemanRules View Post
              Firstly, I get you and Glock confused.

              You're a good poster. I apologize.

              I just don't feel like talking about this subject anymore. You and MF are both on the same side and gave different responses. I don't think I can say much more for my side.. You said it for me.
              again-Christ as Lord is number one. there are "gray" areas in the Bible that are open to interpretation, this is why studying the Word is very important for a believer. extensive research is a must.

              i doubt Christ is going to mention opposing opinions between MF and I on certain subjects when i give an account of my life to Him, and because he was right or i was wrong one of us is going to be cast into eternal brimstone.

              Christ as Lord=#1 priority

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              • #97
                Originally posted by ricardomrivera View Post
                again-Christ as Lord is number one. there are "gray" areas in the Bible that are open to interpretation, this is why studying the Word is very important for a believer. extensive research is a must.

                i doubt Christ is going to mention opposing opinions between MF and I on certain subjects when i give an account of my life to Him, and because he was right or i was wrong one of us is going to be cast into eternal brimstone.

                Christ as Lord=#1 priority
                You are discussing the NT correct? Because in the OT YHWH=#1...


                Just Sayin....
                “War is peace.
                Freedom is slavery.
                Ignorance is strength.”
                ― George Orwell

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by RedForemanRules View Post
                  Wrong. The Bible is okay with drugs for medicinal use. ( 2 Corinthians 7 verse 1 )

                  God doesn't want you to be happy by your own choices.
                  He wants you to be happy by His own guidelines for you.

                  Hence the Ten Commandments.

                  You have no choice in the matter. If you disobey, then you disobey. You can try and justify it all you want.
                  Sorry, but steroid use "IS" a grey zone and a black and whitestance is unwise. In addition, there are biblical passgaes which can be used to supoort ones choice to use responsibly. AS far as health is concerned, a STRONG argument can be raised that taking steroids responsibily causes no meaningful or permanent harm at all...and they can even strengthen your body and hel make you a healthier person,in some cases. In fact,we have several long-term studies showing AAS use to be non-hramful when using 600mg/week of testosterone. Many steroids have been carefully evaluted by the drug manufacturers with human trials, which concurred that responsible steroid use as the manufacturers intended did not present any significant health risk. With this in mind, one cannot authoritatively state thatall AAS use is bad for one health, effectively dimantling the health aspect of the arguent.

                  Breaking the law is anti-biblical...so technically, buying anything which causes you to break the law is against God's will. However, this is only applicable in a minority of countries and even in the U.S they can be legally obtainedand used.

                  Regarding your "idol" comment, that idea is based on a predetermined acceptance that one has made these drugs his idol, which is highly assumptive andnot true inmany cases,to say the least. One does not have to make AAS their "idol" simply because they choose to use them, just as much as one does not have to make football their idol if they choose to play it. Therefore, that scripture verse is not directly applicable to steroid use.

                  Now that every argument you just put forward can be proven invalid under certain circumstances, it becomes obvious that one must assess the situation from a common sense persepctive and from personal conviction. The Bible does not declare all alcohol use unlawfull and alcohol has been shown to be more harmful....in both the short and long-term, in many cases....so it is obvious that we cannot just toss AAS into the sin pile purely by addressing it from a "health point of view, which states that anything which may have any deleterious effects in the body is automatically considered sinful. That is cleary untrue according to other instances in the Bible.

                  In addition, being that one cannot definitively argue the "body is the temple" verse from a health perspective alone, due to contradicting bublical passges,whatare we really left with. Does this verse man that absolutely anything which maybe even remotely harmful to the body should be considered unlawfull? If that is the case, then you better stop breathing our air, drinking our water and eating our food because all of them are more harmful than running a few cycles of AAS.

                  Just because someone may use something for pleasure and not medicinal purposes, it does not mean it is sinful. Once you consider it can be safe, legal and not idol worship, what are you left now?

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by RedForemanRules View Post
                    Then you are going against what He wants.

                    It's not gray area, Kurty... It's all written above you.
                    No....it's not, as I show in my above post.

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                    • Originally posted by RedForemanRules View Post
                      Nope. Just proving my point.

                      Your Bible is very clear with it's stance on using anything that disrupts God's will.
                      And there are ZERO clearverses which support your assertion that all AAS use is against God's will. So far, you have provided no scripture at all which is able to uphold your belief in an indisputable fashion.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mfcruncher View Post
                        Would you include suntan lotion since suntanning is a non-essential activity? Do you believe Christians shouldn't suntan? Do you believe Christian women are sinning if they use cosmetics since God made us naturally without it?

                        I don't see anything in Psalms 139. Help me.(Pulcinella-I'll bet money you didn't read that chapter )

                        1corinthians 6-19,20 sounds like you're correct there Elf. Problem with skeptics is they don't read the entire chapter. From 6:12 down to 20, the entire subject is about sexual immorality. Hey Elf, do you believe in sexual purity? LOL God's not talking about eating Wheaties sprinkled with steroids, but sticking your prick in another dudes butt, among other things.LOL

                        Exodus 20 is referring to worshipping other Gods or idols(a common practice in those days and amongst Catholics). Self-worship or narcissism is what you're probably referring to although I'm certain you're copy/pasting this from some skeptic source/hardline christian source. Anyways, to answer the question, shooting steroids isn't anti-God worship. You're not challenging God's athority in any way.

                        romans 1:25 This scripture isn't even referring to Christians. It's admonishing a general, non-believing, skeptic rebellion against God. OMG!! Read b4 you paste dimwits.

                        This is the same question you get referring to people who play sports, work, or have fun on Sunday. Are they rebelling against God if they don't go to church on the Sabaath? Wait...Saturday is the Sabaath. We're all screwed.

                        To answer the question, if your conscience tells you not to do steroids, then don't. This is similar to the subject of eating food sacrificed to idols. Some Christians felt it was wrong to eat it. Paul didn't have a problem with it, but didn't condemn anyone for the path their conscience took them.

                        JlJ6710, most of the skeptics were trying to implore you to receive the same condemnation they live under since they come from a religious background. Paul was correct when he said "they are jealous for your love" or freedom in Christ. These people are not happy. They hate that we are free from sin and attempt to pull us back down into a performance-based religion which expresses itself in condemnation.

                        It's not gray. You either are bothered by it or not.
                        Great post and right on the money.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by mfcruncher View Post
                          Sorry bro, you need to study up. It's not scripturally, in the least, a sin unless your conscience is bothered by it. You cannot legislate your conscience on other Christians. This is divisive and unproveable.
                          Truth....every single scripture that has thus far been pulled out to justify the belief that all AAS use is sinful is quite frankly, ridiculous....just as much as saying all alcohol use is sinful. Those verses are being misrepresented and taken out of context, as the reader is taking the liberty upon himself to authoritatively go outside the verse's clear and direct meaning by applying his own personal convinctions to the interpretation of each one when it is obvious his beliefs are reaching and unable to be directly supported by other verses in the bible.

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                          • Originally posted by Travel_Dude View Post
                            This is false. You can commit many sins without feeling bad about it. Sin is objective, not subjective. The act itself is the sin.
                            ....and in this case, there is no biblical justification to call all steroid use "sin", as MF Cruncher has shown earlier in this thread.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by RedForemanRules View Post
                              I'm just busting balls too.. I'm not being serious. I don't care what you do with your body.

                              @MF: Yes. According to your Bible, indulging in sun bathing or using sun tan lotion to speed up the tanning process is against God's initial will.
                              LOL...I will not even get into "why" using tanning lotion does NOT have to be sinful. These are matters of the conscience and personal conviction, which depend wholly on the motives behind the actions. Steroid use, when it is not harming the body and is not breaking any laws...falls into this category.

                              He wants you to have little choice for yourself, and for you to listen to what He wants for you.
                              Incorrect. God wants us to make all our own choices unless he directly tells us otherwise. God simply wants us to follow his moral laws, while living life under their direction.


                              I doubt God wants you to have 21 inch arms through drug usage.. Especially when there is ambiguous scripture to back that up.
                              There is ZERO scripture which is able to definiteively back it up....jus as much as their is no scripture to back up the oftenpressed belief that all alcohol use is sinful. Not everything is as black and white as you think....only moral law is black and white.

                              You can still be a Christian and use drugs. I am not denying that... But is that what your God wants you to do? Or do you just pick and choose what God wants for you?
                              AAS use which does not break the law or harm the body is only unlawfull depening on motive. That is a matter which is unique for everyone.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by RedForemanRules View Post
                                You can definitely still call yourself a Christian and sin. The Bible says that you are a born sinner.

                                But do you believe that when you are saved, you are always saved?
                                As long as you stay saved. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit is the "seal of our salvation"numeroustimes and sirely, it is. When a supposed chritian is"bornagain", they recieve the HolySpirit, which is their sign and seal. When a supposed chritsian dies, if he still possess the Holy Spirit, he is saved....period. There is no losing your salvation under ANY circumstances as long as we maintain that seal....the seal of our salvation. It is VERY hard to push the Holy spirit away....much more difficult than one might think, as to do so would mean a loss of salvation, which accordingto theBible, is grave indeed. It requires a deliberate and forceful effort to grieve the Holy Spirirt away. It must be a willfull choice on the part of the christian...a blatant rejection of their creator and salvation,as the Bible says, "All sins will be forgiven amongmen, except he who blasphemes the Holy Spirit".

                                To blaspheme the Holy Spirit is the rejection of Christ....as there is no sin that one might commit which can eternally seperate man from God, other than to reject his salvation. If one were to willfully and intentionally seperate himself from the seal of his salvation, the Holy Spirit, such a man will no longer have any conviction nor care for his choice, nor will his conscience be bothered, as he will have been removed from the influence of the Holy Spirit, who leads christians in conviction and truth. Such a man's spirit no longer bears witness to his creator in spirit or mind. Such a man is eternally lost, as scripture says, to paraphrase "No one who has seen God and who turns his back on him, can be brought back again".

                                It is for this reason that all satanic organizations will not accept anyone into their group who has been Born again, even if he desires it so, as he posseses the Holy Spirit. If such a man desires to turn his back on God and align himself with Satan, that man must reject his salvation through the rejection of the Holy Spirit first, which has been placed inside him. Only then will such a man be accepted into their group, if he meets their other criteria for acceptance.

                                Any man who still possesses the Holy Spirit at death, no matter how small it's voice has grown, even if undiscernable, cannot be rejected, for when God sees a man who has recieved the Holy Spirit, the seal of his salvation, God no longer sees that man, but instead sees Jesus Christ. Any man under the blood of the Christ will never be lost, regardless of sin or disobedience. Any christian who has the Holy Spirit is a saved man, regardless of his sin....as scripture says "He who breaks even the least of these comandments (sins) and teaches others to do likewise, will be called least in the kingdom of God". The Bible is quite clear that man can and will indeed sin until the end, as we all will, with some even teaching others that they should do likewise. Still, their punishment is a lower status in heaven...not hell.

                                Do you believe that just because you believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for the salvation of mankind, that now you can do things the Bible says not to do and still be accepted into your Heaven?
                                Yes....according to scripture, although there is a point where if one is drawn far enough away from God through perpetual sin, he could potentially end up grieving away the Holy Spirit by his own deiberate will. There is no measuring stick by which christians are judged, as according to the Bible, christians have escaped judgment. Salvation is not a matter of works, but of choice....choice to accept the free gift of salvation. Salvation is the result is faith+ nothing....not faith + works...or faith + lack of sin. There is no "judgment day" for christians, in which God lines them up and weighs out their good deeds and sins and takes those who are good enough to heaven and those who don't cut it offf to hell. No! Everyone of them is saved. To a christian, God is our father and has taken on that role. He does not deal with us as enemies which need to be crushed for a single area of disobidience. The penalty for being a stubborn asshole and refusing to listen to one of Gods commands is no different than how a loving parent responds their to children....they are not rejected....but rather disciplined out of love like "children".

                                If you do believe that, then you believe against Christian principles.
                                Not at all...it is you who do not have a clear understanding of salvation and God's relationship with man once he becomes our father...and how that relationship differs from those who are not his children.

                                Once you are saved, you are supposed to hold yourself to a higher standard.
                                True....out of love and a will to please God...not out of fear.

                                The definition of a Christian is one who lives his life as Jesus Christ would. Right?
                                NO...it's not.

                                The definition of a christian is one who has accepted Jesus christ and recieved the Holy spirit asthe seal of his salvation. How he conducts himself afterwards is a matter of spiritual growth andhowmuch the flesh is in controlproportion to the spirit. This varries widely from person to person....as we well know.

                                By that definition, once you are saved you should put aside these drugs in order to live your life more purely.
                                Already addressed this in another post.

                                Would Jesus take these drugs you are taking?
                                Would Jesus do many of the things you do? No, yet you do them all the time anyway. Are you lost because of it?

                                Can you feel 100% secure in the fact that you will go to Heaven, even though you are taking drugs that make your body work in an unnatural way (which is a sin)?
                                Yes.....just as much as the christian who is a social drinker is going to heaven.

                                If your answer is "yes", then good luck.
                                If your answer is no....miserable you will be and fearful of hell you will live due to your sin-filled life, which you will always have with you.

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