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Thread: Is steroid use against Christian principals??

  1. #154
    Freak of Nature mfcruncher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    Because the jews of Judaism rejected Jesus as the messiah...there was no choice, but to start a new "church".
    thanks mike. I was sitting on two glasses of wine when I wrote that.
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  2. #155
    Freak of Nature mfcruncher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    When scripture is read and understood within it's proper context, which is fairly simple to do concerning Jesus's intentions regarding his "church" (which we dubbed "christianity") we get a clear understanding that this is eactly what Jesus intended to be done, as he says so both directly and indirectly throughout the entire NT. In fact, Jesus's only purpose in empowering his followers was to build a "new" church and spread the gospel to the ends of the Earth. He states so very clearly.
    There are many references to Christ introducing Himself as the Messiah. For instance, God told Moses to tell Israel that "I am" sent him. When soldiers came to take Jesus, they asked if He was Jesus and Jesus said "I am". It says the sodiers immediately fell to the ground as if something had exploded. There's a bunch of stuff like that.
    "I'm tired of always being right. It gives me an unfair advantage when I debate Alemannic German speaking trolls."

  3. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfcruncher View Post
    What is painfully obvious is that nothing here represents anything you believe. It's what you want to believe. That being said, if you would actually care to discuss any one or two things, bold them and I will address. Be sure to let Celt edit them first so I can make head or tails of it.
    What I wrote, what is reality, and what I believe are three different things. Reality to those trapped within it's frame is fickle and almost impossible to determine, there are very few constant laws in life. What I wrote is the closest thing I can determine to be the historical truth of Christianity. And what I believe is if God exists then it doesn't particularly care about every day life and thus I don't recognize it and it doesn't recognize me.
    Can't spell strength without tren.

  4. #157

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    Btw if I wanted to be a Christian then I would bring back the Agnostics...
    Can't spell strength without tren.

  5. #158
    Freak of Nature mfcruncher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrupt Nexus View Post
    What I wrote, what is reality, and what I believe are three different things. Reality to those trapped within it's frame is fickle and almost impossible to determine, there are very few constant laws in life. What I wrote is the closest thing I can determine to be the historical truth of Christianity. And what I believe is if God exists then it doesn't particularly care about every day life and thus I don't recognize it and it doesn't recognize me.
    This is what I told you. What you believe about Christ as interpreted by what you wrote has led to a fickle opinion about reality. I find you trapped and lacking passion. This is why I said you do not have a strong belief about what you wrote.

    I wouldn't agree that God doesn't care about you. The imputation speaks of a different nature.
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    "Take away Easter, and Karl Marx was probably right to accuse Christianity of ignoring problems of the material world. Take it away and Freud was probably right to say Christianity is wish-fulfillment. Take it away and Nietzshe probably was right to say it was for wimps."



    N.T. Wright, For All God's Worth: True Worship and the calling of the church(Erdmans, 1997), pp 65-66
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  7. #160

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    My beliefs on Christianity came from the 17 years of my life I spent within the Church, and how at the end of the day I was filled with anger that the world I lived in wasn't protected by some omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being. I was tired of looking for signs that he or she existed and how no matter how hard I believed and prayed it didn't make a difference; when I stopped caring, stopped going to church, and started living life by my own definition of morality and belief system things felt much more fulfilling and tranquil. When I gave up the game of religion, I felt like I had accomplished something. I have dirtied my hands and given more back to my community and maybe humanity that any supposed Christian I know. I've seen church groups come and go at homeless shelters, always afraid to do the hard work; however, I, along with several other nontheistics, are their every week to help in anyway we can. I have seen Christian's drive down the road and look at a homeless person sitting in the sweltering heat and comment on how sad it was; I got off my ass and bought them a gallon of water, bread or granola bars, and gave them directions to the closest shelter, offering anything I could to get them there. I gave these people this aid out of my genuine effort to change the world, Christian's always conditionally help and then ramble on about their God and what he has done. From what I have seen Christians are perfectly content on sitting on their comfortable pews talking about how their God has done these great things, and may take a weekend or so do small amounts of work to make themselves feel better. I was a Chemistry and Calculus instructor at a private Christian school for 2 years and I know first hand how out of touch with reality both the student and their parents actually are. It made me so angry to hear a student tell me they didn't want to talk to a person because they looked poor or smelled bad; or to have parent tell me that it really wasn't their job to help these people, we came and cleaned the windows and that's all we could really do. When it really comes down to it most Christian's want to think their God will take care of the righteous, and if something bad happens to someone it must because of their sin against God. Apparently it's just a bit too hard to understand that bad things happen to good people, and it happens quite often. Poverty can't distinguish between creed, race, or sexual orientation so why should we, the very people who are supposed to help those than can be helped, care what their answer to those three statuses are?
    Can't spell strength without tren.

  8. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrupt Nexus View Post
    My beliefs on Christianity came from the 17 years of my life I spent within the Church, and how at the end of the day I was filled with anger that the world I lived in wasn't protected by some omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being. I was tired of looking for signs that he or she existed and how no matter how hard I believed and prayed it didn't make a difference; when I stopped caring, stopped going to church, and started living life by my own definition of morality and belief system things felt much more fulfilling and tranquil. When I gave up the game of religion, I felt like I had accomplished something. I have dirtied my hands and given more back to my community and maybe humanity that any supposed Christian I know. I've seen church groups come and go at homeless shelters, always afraid to do the hard work; however, I, along with several other nontheistics, are their every week to help in anyway we can. I have seen Christian's drive down the road and look at a homeless person sitting in the sweltering heat and comment on how sad it was; I got off my ass and bought them a gallon of water, bread or granola bars, and gave them directions to the closest shelter, offering anything I could to get them there. I gave these people this aid out of my genuine effort to change the world, Christian's always conditionally help and then ramble on about their God and what he has done. From what I have seen Christians are perfectly content on sitting on their comfortable pews talking about how their God has done these great things, and may take a weekend or so do small amounts of work to make themselves feel better. I was a Chemistry and Calculus instructor at a private Christian school for 2 years and I know first hand how out of touch with reality both the student and their parents actually are. It made me so angry to hear a student tell me they didn't want to talk to a person because they looked poor or smelled bad; or to have parent tell me that it really wasn't their job to help these people, we came and cleaned the windows and that's all we could really do. When it really comes down to it most Christian's want to think their God will take care of the righteous, and if something bad happens to someone it must because of their sin against God. Apparently it's just a bit too hard to understand that bad things happen to good people, and it happens quite often. Poverty can't distinguish between creed, race, or sexual orientation so why should we, the very people who are supposed to help those than can be helped, care what their answer to those three statuses are?
    While I truly sympathize with your feelings and no doubt there are hypocrites who clothe themselves in the name of Christianity...I believe and know you are way off base with true GENUINE, authentic Christians helping out the poor and others in need. I see it all the time. Unfortunately there are lukeworm churches out there that just want to get their felt needs tickled..have a little church and go home until next Sunday. I know and agree with you that there many like that.

    But myself a genuine Protestant Christian who has been regenerated by the Spirit of God do do for others as well as my church and many others. God does wonderful things..but I say this to you with soberness in my spirit. God owes us NOTHING. This is His universe and He predestines everything that comes to pass. One last mistake on your part. What you do might be a nice thing. There should be more Christians out there showing what Jesus did and commanded us to do. But if one is NOT a Christian. I am not talking religious...that is something totally different from Christianity...but if one is NOT one...then the Bible says that all your good deeds are filthy rags. So I am just saying that make sure you are a Christian first before you say that you are doing good.

    Because God says you are not if you are not His. God sees the heart..man sees the outside only...so there is other motivation in it for the unsaved person. God knows this. I am just telling you the truth of the Bible. Doesn't matter what any man says. And if the Bible says we are dead in trespasses and sin....a spirtually dead man..or non-Christian can do nothing just like a dead man cannot come to life without a supernatural resurrection.

  9. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfcruncher View Post
    There are many references to Christ introducing Himself as the Messiah. For instance, God told Moses to tell Israel that "I am" sent him. When soldiers came to take Jesus, they asked if He was Jesus and Jesus said "I am". It says the sodiers immediately fell to the ground as if something had exploded. There's a bunch of stuff like that.
    Actually..I don't know about any exploding..the soldiers wanted to kill him when he said that. Because Jesus said that before Moses was..."I am".

  10. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by cledo5 View Post
    I think Forman is a big outrageous, but I stick with Forman on the fact that one can be taken out of the book of life after accepting Jesus. Saying this is not true is like saying someone can accept Jesus, then become a serial murder/rapist, moreover denying the existance of Christ and let's add that he prosecute Christians and rape little boys; if you are willing to tell me that this person will still be in the book of life because he was once saved, then be my guess. It is also stated in the bible, I just do not know it off the top of my head. I'm with Forman on this one.
    While I understand what you are saying and agree with you to a point. Christians still sin after they are saved...if we say we do not the Bible says we are liars and the truth is not in us. But if one claims to be a Christian...but continues on sinning...that person was not saved in the first place. They did not have what theologians call true saving faith. Hebrews chapter 6 talks a little about this.

  11. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by cledo5 View Post
    As far as steroid and Christianity, The only thing I will say about this is that there is a possibility that steroid can mess you up if you do not know what you're doing and with the scripture against the abuse of alcohol, it shows that God wants us to be aware of how we treat our bodies; so if you will do steroid, make sure you do it under a supervision of a specialist, or make sure you are 100% sure of what you're doing. With the right practices, steroid is great for your body so have at it.
    I agree with most of your post. But I as a Christian would never take them. Everyone will say that it is an even playing field. Yes..everyone is equally cheating. It is against the law without a prescription except for medicinal uses...and we all know that that is not what AAS,GH, and such are used for by professional,national level and local athletes. God wants us to obey the law of the land. I believe ...if I am not mistaken about only medicinal uses. That goes back to the 1990 Steroid Control Act and refined in 2004 to include prohormones. There is a thing called the conscience that God has placed in everyone of us that tells us what is right and wrong. No..it does not say anything about AAS in the Bible because they didn't exist then.

    But there is possible health porblems when used or abused...and God says the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Though only a Christian really has the Holy Spirit indwelling them..but that does not let unbelievers off the hook. Just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Benner View Post
    I agree with most of your post. But I as a Christian would never take them. Everyone will say that it is an even playing field. Yes..everyone is equally cheating. It is against the law without a prescription except for medicinal uses...and we all know that that is not what AAS,GH, and such are used for by professional,national level and local athletes. God wants us to obey the law of the land. I believe ...if I am not mistaken about only medicinal uses. That goes back to the 1990 Steroid Control Act and refined in 2004 to include prohormones. There is a thing called the conscience that God has placed in everyone of us that tells us what is right and wrong. No..it does not say anything about AAS in the Bible because they didn't exist then.

    But there is possible health porblems when used or abused...and God says the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Though only a Christian really has the Holy Spirit indwelling them..but that does not let unbelievers off the hook. Just my opinion.
    Charles, you are sadly a victim of Media I'm sorry.

    There is only commercial advertising "T" referring to low testosterone levels in men, and it is the only one that list no side effects.

    If you believe you should share the same views as the government in relation to any drug use, you are seriously sad and ignorant.

    You have a higher chance of winning the lottery, then experiencing anything more then elevated blood pressure and acne from steroid use. A far cry from the death that many receive from nsaids and other "legal" governmental drugs.

  13. #166
    Freak of Nature mfcruncher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrupt Nexus View Post
    My beliefs on Christianity came from the 17 years of my life I spent within the Church, and how at the end of the day I was filled with anger that the world I lived in wasn't protected by some omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being. I was tired of looking for signs that he or she existed and how no matter how hard I believed and prayed it didn't make a difference; when I stopped caring, stopped going to church, and started living life by my own definition of morality and belief system things felt much more fulfilling and tranquil. When I gave up the game of religion, I felt like I had accomplished something. I have dirtied my hands and given more back to my community and maybe humanity that any supposed Christian I know. I've seen church groups come and go at homeless shelters, always afraid to do the hard work; however, I, along with several other nontheistics, are their every week to help in anyway we can. I have seen Christian's drive down the road and look at a homeless person sitting in the sweltering heat and comment on how sad it was; I got off my ass and bought them a gallon of water, bread or granola bars, and gave them directions to the closest shelter, offering anything I could to get them there. I gave these people this aid out of my genuine effort to change the world, Christian's always conditionally help and then ramble on about their God and what he has done. From what I have seen Christians are perfectly content on sitting on their comfortable pews talking about how their God has done these great things, and may take a weekend or so do small amounts of work to make themselves feel better. I was a Chemistry and Calculus instructor at a private Christian school for 2 years and I know first hand how out of touch with reality both the student and their parents actually are. It made me so angry to hear a student tell me they didn't want to talk to a person because they looked poor or smelled bad; or to have parent tell me that it really wasn't their job to help these people, we came and cleaned the windows and that's all we could really do. When it really comes down to it most Christian's want to think their God will take care of the righteous, and if something bad happens to someone it must because of their sin against God. Apparently it's just a bit too hard to understand that bad things happen to good people, and it happens quite often. Poverty can't distinguish between creed, race, or sexual orientation so why should we, the very people who are supposed to help those than can be helped, care what their answer to those three statuses are?

    The blood wasn't enough? Nobody kept you from serving. Jesus taught us to serve, not to look for rewards or blessings. Did you give your life to death? Quit crying and pick up your cross.

    You haven't given more back to the community than me or the Christians I know!(http://www.heartsfortheworld.org/) But, never the less, you're repeating the doctrine of performance-based religion...again. Isn't Christ enough?

    I am a Pastor, and I know how Christians are far more in touch w/ reality and a broken world than most skeptics.

    2nd bold: God did take care of the righteous(for eternity). You represent performance-based religion, again, which is diametrically opposed to love and God.

    I don't mean to be tough on you, but you're obstinate and misinformed.
    Last edited by mfcruncher; November 30th, 2010 at 03:33 AM.
    "I'm tired of always being right. It gives me an unfair advantage when I debate Alemannic German speaking trolls."

  14. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtyJ99 View Post
    Charles, you are sadly a victim of Media I'm sorry.

    There is only commercial advertising "T" referring to low testosterone levels in men, and it is the only one that list no side effects.

    If you believe you should share the same views as the government in relation to any drug use, you are seriously sad and ignorant.


    You have a higher chance of winning the lottery, then experiencing anything more then elevated blood pressure and acne from steroid use. A far cry from the death that many receive from nsaids and other "legal" governmental drugs.
    I am not mistaken..I know from research and other peoples' personal testimony that there are bad effects that AAS and GH and all the other drugs that the athletes choose to take. It just doesn't want to be talked about or admitted in this sport. It is always some genetic defect. No..I don't even watch TV because everything insults my intelligence. So they are not affecting my thinking.

    I do agree with you about there more danger to NSAIDS than many peole think. Both are dangerous when taken abusively.

  15. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Benner View Post
    I agree with most of your post. But I as a Christian would never take them. Everyone will say that it is an even playing field. Yes..everyone is equally cheating. It is against the law without a prescription except for medicinal uses...and we all know that that is not what AAS,GH, and such are used for by professional,national level and local athletes. God wants us to obey the law of the land. I believe ...if I am not mistaken about only medicinal uses. That goes back to the 1990 Steroid Control Act and refined in 2004 to include prohormones. There is a thing called the conscience that God has placed in everyone of us that tells us what is right and wrong. No..it does not say anything about AAS in the Bible because they didn't exist then.

    But there is possible health porblems when used or abused...and God says the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Though only a Christian really has the Holy Spirit indwelling them..but that does not let unbelievers off the hook. Just my opinion.
    If non-Christians aren't "off the hook" of your mythology then you also aren't "off the hook" of Muhammed's laws and Buddah and Zeus and every other god man has ever invented. I hope you are following ALL of them!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Benner View Post
    I am not mistaken..I know from research and other peoples' personal testimony that there are bad effects that AAS and GH and all the other drugs that the athletes choose to take. It just doesn't want to be talked about or admitted in this sport. It is always some genetic defect. No..I don't even watch TV because everything insults my intelligence. So they are not affecting my thinking.

    I do agree with you about there more danger to NSAIDS than many peole think. Both are dangerous when taken abusively.
    Another guy who has never actually taken anything, yet professing to the so-called truth. Amazing.

  17. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Benner View Post
    I am not mistaken..I know from research and other peoples' personal testimony that there are bad effects that AAS and GH and all the other drugs that the athletes choose to take. It just doesn't want to be talked about or admitted in this sport. It is always some genetic defect. No..I don't even watch TV because everything insults my intelligence. So they are not affecting my thinking.

    I do agree with you about there more danger to NSAIDS than many peole think. Both are dangerous when taken abusively.


    I would say they are like any other drug, if abused they can lead to serious consequences. If used properly and under a physicians watchful eye, they are probably no worse than any prescription drug out there, many of which have far worse side effects.
    “War is peace.
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