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Thread: Is steroid use against Christian principals??

  1. #35
    Freak of Nature mfcruncher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elf View Post
    You can definitely still call yourself a Christian and sin. The Bible says that you are a born sinner.

    But do you believe that when you are saved, you are always saved? Do you believe that just because you believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for the salvation of mankind, that now you can do things the Bible says not to do and still be accepted into your Heaven?

    If you do believe that, then you believe against Christian principles. Once you are saved, you are supposed to hold yourself to a higher standard. The definition of a Christian is one who lives his life as Jesus Christ would. Right? By that definition, once you are saved you should put aside these drugs in order to live your life more purely.

    Would Jesus take these drugs you are taking?
    Can you feel 100% secure in the fact that you will go to Heaven, even though you are taking drugs that make your body work in an unnatural way (which is a sin)?

    If your answer is "yes", then good luck.

    Elfster. I know you're very confident on your biblical interpretations, but do some studying on performance-based religion vs grace. It really makes what you're saying indefensible.

    EPHESIANS 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJV)
    ROMANS 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under Law but under grace. (NKJV)
    Last edited by mfcruncher; November 18th, 2010 at 04:14 PM.
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  2. #36
    Freak of Nature Elf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfcruncher View Post
    Elfster. I know you're very confident on your biblical interpretations, but do some studying on performance-based religion vs grace. It really makes what you're saying indefensible.
    I've heard this before. It's kind of like saying, "I don't need to follow exactly what God says because of his grace." Yet he Flooded the Earth because we weren't listening to Him. He even destroyed Sadam and Gomorrah because we weren't listening to Him.

    He has proven time and time again in the Bible that if we don't follow his will, then we're fucked.

    You're just justifying yourself with the fact that God might have a little bit of grace and mercy.

  3. #37
    Freak of Nature mfcruncher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elf View Post
    I've heard this before. It's kind of like saying, "I don't need to follow exactly what God says because of his grace." Yet he Flooded the Earth because we weren't listening to Him. He even destroyed Sadam and Gomorrah because we weren't listening to Him.

    He has proven time and time again in the Bible that if we don't follow his will, then we're fucked.

    You're just justifying yourself with the fact that God might have a little bit of grace and mercy.

    I'm not going to argue what you don't know. Let's simplify this. What does the discussion Paul makes about "food sacrificed to idols" tell us? This was a gray area, not about homosexuality or murder, but a gray area that isn't specifically addressed by the Word. What does it tell us? What did Paul say?

    If you can answer that correctly, then you can answer this steroid question accurately.

    (the best way to study it is google on line at Mathew-Henry's commentary) Do you need me to tell you where it is in the NT?
    "I'm tired of always being right. It gives me an unfair advantage when I debate Alemannic German speaking trolls."

  4. #38
    Freak of Nature Elf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfcruncher View Post
    I'm not going to argue what you don't know. Let's simplify this. What does the discussion Paul makes about "food sacrificed to idols" tell us? This was a gray area, not about homosexuality or murder, but a gray area that isn't specifically addressed by the Word. What does it tell us? What did Paul say?

    If you can answer that correctly, then you can answer this steroid question accurately.

    (the best way to study it is google on line at Mathew-Henry's commentary) Do you need me to tell you where it is in the NT?
    It's in Romans or something..
    Paul's point was that it is not necessarily wrong to eat food sacrificed to idols, but it should be avoided because it could lead other Christians to sin.

    Even though eating food that is sacrificed to idols is not wrong, it is wrong to worship idols.. It is wrong to eat sacrificed meat in order to worship an idol.. But if you eat what is given to you, or you purchase meat that was sacrificed then it is okay.

    It sounded to me like a justification of Christian Communion.

    Romans 14:14
    As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself.

    So... If you do something for a 'bad' reason, then it is wrong.. But if you do something for a reason of good, then it is okay..

    Looking in another direction, it sounds to me like: If you make an accident, it's okay in God's eye.

    I don't know what else you can draw from this.. Maybe you can clear it up?
    Last edited by Elf; November 18th, 2010 at 05:14 PM.

  5. #39
    Freak of Nature mfcruncher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elf View Post
    It's in Romans or something..
    Paul's point was that it is not necessarily wrong to eat food sacrificed to idols, but it should be avoided because it could lead other Christians to sin.

    Even though eating food that is sacrificed to idols is not wrong, it is wrong to worship idols.. It is wrong to eat sacrificed meat in order to worship an idol.. But if you eat what is given to you, or you purchase meat that was sacrificed then it is okay.

    It sounded to me like a justification of Christian Communion.

    Romans 14:14
    As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself.

    So... If you do something for a 'bad' reason, then it is wrong.. But if you do something for a reason of good, then it is okay..

    Looking in another direction, it sounds to me like: If you make an accident, it's okay in God's eye.

    I don't know what else you can draw from this.. Maybe you can clear it up?
    You're interpretation is almost correct. Did you notice that it all depended on the conscience or "weak" conscience? Paul didn't attempt to criminalize either party.

    The larger issue is God made each of us unique and for different purposes. God speaks through our heart(or conscience). For some people, being a missionary is in obedience to God. For them not to be a missionary would be a sin. We cannot say that all people who aren't missionaries are in sin and that God is just letting the sin slip by, as you suggest. Some had problems with food sacrificed to idols. Some didn't. The point was that in issues where there is not an obvious intepretation, we are to follow our conscience.

    Paul urges us not to get married so that we may devote more of ourselves to God. Was there a wrong or right answer about marriage? no. Does that sound like if you get married you're sinning but it's ok anyways? no

    There are obvious sins of rebellion. The reason there are what we call "gray areas" are actually interpretations of each individuals conscience/heart and their relationship to God. You can't queer that.

    Therefore, you are in complete error to sugget that issues such as this(steroid use) are black and white. This is not the same sort of subject as homosexuality, murder, adultery, idolatry etc. These sins are black and white.

    Finally, the scriptures you introduced were taken out of context and I showed you that scripturally. Do you have a response to your mistaken interpretations on those scriptures?
    Last edited by mfcruncher; November 18th, 2010 at 05:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfcruncher View Post
    You're interpretation is almost correct. Did you notice that it all depended on the conscience or "weak" conscience? Paul didn't attempt to criminalize either party.

    The larger issue is God made each of us unique and for different purposes. God speaks through our heart(or conscience). For some people, being a missionary is in obedience to God. For them not to be a missionary would be a sin. We cannot say that all people who aren't missionaries are in sin and that God is just letting the sin slip by, as you suggest. Some had problems with food sacrificed to idols. Some didn't. The point was that in issues where there is not an obvious intepretation, we are to follow our conscience.

    Paul urges us not to get married so that we may devote more of ourselves to God. Was there a wrong or right answer about marriage? no. Does that sound like if you get married you're sinning but it's ok anyways? no

    There are obvious sins of rebellion. The reason there are what we call "gray areas" are actually interpretations of each individuals conscience/heart and their relationship to God. You can't queer that.

    Therefore, you are in complete error to sugget that issues such as this(steroid use) are black and white. This is not the same sort of subject as homosexuality, murder, adultery, idolatry etc. These sins are black and white.

    Finally, the scriptures you introduced were taken out of context and I showed you that scripturally. Do you have a response to your mistaken interpretations on those scriptures?
    This is why your religion is so weird to me.
    You don't listen to God... You listen to some guys, like Paul.. You seek guidance from a person who makes good points, but isn't 100% correct with everything he says.. Like his view of marriage.


    1. God made us the way we are, to function the way we do - naturally, not artificially. - ( Psalm 139 )
    2. God did make everybody different, for different reasons, to do different things... But according to Psalm, God did not create us to take drugs like AAS. How am I taking that out of context? How am I misinterpreting that?

    This could be a better discussion if it had to do with weed.. Beacuse weed is naturally occurring.. Like alcohol. But AAS is not in the same category as a naturally occurring herb or a fermented fruit. AAS are synthetic drugs to make your body operate in a way you want it to. God did not create AAS like he created herbs or alcohol.

    This particualr subject seems very, very black and white to me.

  7. #41
    Iron Addict FrancisJamesW-III's Avatar
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    I do not usually sink to the level of arguing fictitious Bronze Age literature, but christians believe what they want to believe and what suites them..........hence if they want to use performance enhancing drugs, they will, as long as they praise their lord afterwards of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfcruncher View Post
    You're interpretation is almost correct. Did you notice that it all depended on the conscience or "weak" conscience? Paul didn't attempt to criminalize either party.

    The larger issue is God made each of us unique and for different purposes. God speaks through our heart(or conscience). For some people, being a missionary is in obedience to God. For them not to be a missionary would be a sin. We cannot say that all people who aren't missionaries are in sin and that God is just letting the sin slip by, as you suggest. Some had problems with food sacrificed to idols. Some didn't. The point was that in issues where there is not an obvious intepretation, we are to follow our conscience.

    Paul urges us not to get married so that we may devote more of ourselves to God. Was there a wrong or right answer about marriage? no. Does that sound like if you get married you're sinning but it's ok anyways? no

    There are obvious sins of rebellion. The reason there are what we call "gray areas" are actually interpretations of each individuals conscience/heart and their relationship to God. You can't queer that.

    Therefore, you are in complete error to sugget that issues such as this(steroid use) are black and white. This is not the same sort of subject as homosexuality, murder, adultery, idolatry etc. These sins are black and white.

    Finally, the scriptures you introduced were taken out of context and I showed you that scripturally. Do you have a response to your mistaken interpretations on those scriptures?

    Thank you for saying this, as I you find much better words then me.

  9. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfcruncher View Post
    Problem with skeptics is they don't read the entire chapter.
    [/B].
    Bingo
    ROMANS 8:11 TITUS 3:9

  10. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildman536 View Post
    Bingo
    Not bingo... I just answered MF's question and am awaiting a response from him.. I would welcome you to respond to Post #37, #38, and #40 in this thread. I'm not trying to discredit your beliefs, I just want to know why you want to justify drug abuse as a Christian.

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    Good points here from both sides
    All statements made herein are fictional and are solely for entertainment purposes

  12. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elf View Post
    Wrong. The Bible is okay with drugs for medicinal use. ( 2 Corinthians 7 verse 1 )

    God doesn't want you to be happy by your own choices.
    He wants you to be happy by His own guidelines for you.

    Hence the Ten Commandments.

    You have no choice in the matter. If you disobey, then you disobey. You can try and justify it all you want.
    Actually the ten commandments are kind of plagiarized, it seems funny that "God" would have given them these commandments right after their "Exodus" or removal from Egypt. The reason is that the Egyptians has 42 commandments known as "Ma'at Commandments/Laws" the 10 commandments of the Jews are part of the 42 just dumbed down and simplified. It is inane to believe that only 10 rules could dictate morality, but leave it to Christian's to let an religious text dictate to them what is and isn't right. It's okay though, slowly and surely you ignorant bastards are breeding yourselves out. Just remember it was the scientist, the very truth of nature your people tried to repress, that has given you antibiotics, vaccines, and the ability to prolong death. Yet you superstitious bastards continue to refuse to use birth control and keep producing more and more religious zealots. Eventually nature will intervene, as it always does, and dwindle your population back down. I say yours, because those of us who are intelligent and embrace logic and reason and reject blind faith and optimism are the ones who will survive. Human life isn't some kind of inalienable right, survival of the fittest my friend, and unfortunately fitness isn't referring to physical strength.
    Can't spell strength without tren.

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    I feel that I will be judged for my sins one day. I don't believe that once you have excepted god into your heart and your name is written into the book of life that your name can be taken out. I realize that steroid taking more than likely is a sin an I will be judged for that one day. I will continue to sin an that's why Jesus mad the ultimate sacrafice. Not saying you can do what ever you want just because jesus made a sacrafice. I do believe that it is God's decision on who has eternal life and who dosen't. It's not man's place to say who's in an who's out. I do not approve of bible beating christians who think there religious veiws are better than everyone else's beliefs. There is no doubt in my mind I will go to heaven. I do morally hold myself to higher standards than most but taking steroids will not get you kicked out of heaven. I also do not shove my moral principals on other's. People have the right to choose. I just may not choose as them. Just because my interpretation of the bible may be different than your's it's not up to you to say or preach to other's about if there christian principals are up to your standars. It's up to God.

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    This above response is for Redformanrules. It is responding to your question on page 2. not being mean just speaking what I believe. If your views are different I respect that. I also have respect for other religions. I'm not one to say my beliefs are superior to all other religions. All religions for the most part share some of the same major beliefs. Believing in higher power.. They all do that. Treating others how you like to be treated... They all do that. Being good and kind to fellow man... They all do that. Christians, Jews, Muslims all believe in GOD.. It's the same higher power for all those religion's. It's all the stuff inbetween that may very.

  15. #49
    Juggernaut SISTEROFJESUS's Avatar
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    from one Christian to another, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! i'm Nat level myself and i just use Jesus, supps that He guides me to use and food. and that's all u need.





    Quote Originally Posted by jlj6710 View Post
    In the bible god says your body is the temple of god... Many bodybuilders are spirtual. I am a national level competitor and a born again christian. I believe in God, Heaven, Hell, ect. I have allways had a struggle in saying steroid use and bodybuilding in God's eye's is fine. If someone knows scriptors, or has some intelectual input on this please respond. You don't need to be Christian to have a response to this. Other religions believe in the same God as I do. The principals may be different. Thanks. Please no responses that are not educated.

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    Freak of Nature mfcruncher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtyJ99 View Post
    Thank you for saying this, as I you find much better words then me.

    thanks bro
    "I'm tired of always being right. It gives me an unfair advantage when I debate Alemannic German speaking trolls."

  17. #51
    Freak of Nature mfcruncher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrupt Nexus View Post
    Actually the ten commandments are kind of plagiarized, it seems funny that "God" would have given them these commandments right after their "Exodus" or removal from Egypt. The reason is that the Egyptians has 42 commandments known as "Ma'at Commandments/Laws" the 10 commandments of the Jews are part of the 42 just dumbed down and simplified. It is inane to believe that only 10 rules could dictate morality, but leave it to Christian's to let an religious text dictate to them what is and isn't right. It's okay though, slowly and surely you ignorant bastards are breeding yourselves out. Just remember it was the scientist, the very truth of nature your people tried to repress, that has given you antibiotics, vaccines, and the ability to prolong death. Yet you superstitious bastards continue to refuse to use birth control and keep producing more and more religious zealots. Eventually nature will intervene, as it always does, and dwindle your population back down. I say yours, because those of us who are intelligent and embrace logic and reason and reject blind faith and optimism are the ones who will survive. Human life isn't some kind of inalienable right, survival of the fittest my friend, and unfortunately fitness isn't referring to physical strength.
    You may want to explain the 613 Laws in in Leviticus as part of your "dumbed down" connection to the "Ma'at Commandments/Laws". That is just Leviticus.

    Tatyana, an educated skeptic that posts here said, "Being a scientist and being religious are not mutually exclusive".

    Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the German author/pastor/martyr under Hitler said ,"contempt for the age of rationalism is a suspicious sign of failure to feel the need for truthfulness. If intellectual honesty is not the last word that is to be said about things, and if intellectual clarity is often achieved at the expense of insight into reality, this can still never again exempt us from the inner obligation to make clean and honest use of reason."


    Let me address your comments on the 10 commandments. Actually you're wrong on two accounts. It's the skeptics that have circumvented the purpose of the ten commandments to mean something about morality. The First Commandment should leave no doubt as to why the ten commandments were created. It is the only reason they were created. That is your second innacuracy.
    "I'm tired of always being right. It gives me an unfair advantage when I debate Alemannic German speaking trolls."

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