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Thread: Is steroid use against Christian principals??

  1. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfcruncher View Post
    Yeah Mike, jump through his hoops, as if that will win you an argument.
    LOL....I already saw that one, but thanks anyway. There is no way in all hell I am moving off his 2 milelong post after addressing almost every point....only to recieve zero response to my rebuttals.

  2. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtyJ99 View Post
    LOL, now you were a possible pastor? Right...
    Sounds reasonable to me. Mike seems to have some very intimate knowledge of the bible.

  3. #139

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    i understand what your saying...but how can we NOT affect other people ? We are social beings..... we affect each other daily, even hourly !

  4. #140
    Forum Leader: Politics & Religion The Celt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    I can't tell if your being a smart ass or not...LOL.

    Yes and No...


    Jesus always said that his followers should continue to follow Judaism, did he not? At no point did he proclaim himself to be the founder of a new religion, all the reforms he wished to make were in the context of the system in place. A last Supper may have taken place, but with much different meaning than what we have before us today. Thus by creating a new religion with jesus as the basis and focus of that religion, current christians not only go against his teachings and wishes, but are also breaking at least two of the commandments...
    “War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.”
    ― George Orwell

  5. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrupt Nexus View Post
    If that is the case then explain to me the roots of Zoroastrianism... Where did it derive it's teachings from?
    Aliens...Duh!
    “War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.”
    ― George Orwell

  6. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlj6710 View Post
    In the bible god says your body is the temple of god... Many bodybuilders are spirtual. I am a national level competitor and a born again christian. I believe in God, Heaven, Hell, ect. I have allways had a struggle in saying steroid use and bodybuilding in God's eye's is fine. If someone knows scriptors, or has some intelectual input on this please respond. You don't need to be Christian to have a response to this. Other religions believe in the same God as I do. The principals may be different. Thanks. Please no responses that are not educated.
    As far as steroid and Christianity, The only thing I will say about this is that there is a possibility that steroid can mess you up if you do not know what you're doing and with the scripture against the abuse of alcohol, it shows that God wants us to be aware of how we treat our bodies; so if you will do steroid, make sure you do it under a supervision of a specialist, or make sure you are 100% sure of what you're doing. With the right practices, steroid is great for your body so have at it.

  7. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    Yes....before I told God to Fuck off after what happened in my life. Everyone thinks it will never happen to them...and that's what I thought. "Ohhh...how could anyone ever get angry with God when we know he's just and righteous in all his ways?". I used to think this same thing myself....until it happend. Years later I haven't stepped into church but once or twice and have not opended the bible once. Asisstant pastor at 2 different churches...nominated for head pastor after the current one was gping to another church....fell away almost completely. Mainted my faith in Jesus for salvation, as reality is impossible to ignore, but that's it. Changed completely since. Since I lost my child, God's will matters little. The Process took years to happen before I got to that point, but it is reality today. I was a social worker as my fultime job then...left to go into drug rehab centers wokring with addicts...left that for the car business....no I am here today as a coach. Little desire to go back....seared conscience. Virtually indistiguishable from the world.
    Well don't turn your back on him now.

    I can't imagine loosing a child, but you should know as a man of faith that it was not god's will for that to happen.

  8. #144
    Freak of Nature mfcruncher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Celt View Post
    Yes and No...


    Jesus always said that his followers should continue to follow Judaism, did he not? At no point did he proclaim himself to be the founder of a new religion, all the reforms he wished to make were in the context of the system in place. A last Supper may have taken place, but with much different meaning than what we have before us today. Thus by creating a new religion with jesus as the basis and focus of that religion, current christians not only go against his teachings and wishes, but are also breaking at least two of the commandments...
    Interesting take. While I could argue it, I abstain based on the fact that you inspire me to think about your interpretation. I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing, but simply appreciating what you bring to the table here. I'm left wondering if we're possibly not on the same page here.
    "I'm tired of always being right. It gives me an unfair advantage when I debate Alemannic German speaking trolls."

  9. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedForemanRules View Post
    You can definitely still call yourself a Christian and sin. The Bible says that you are a born sinner.

    But do you believe that when you are saved, you are always saved? Do you believe that just because you believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for the salvation of mankind, that now you can do things the Bible says not to do and still be accepted into your Heaven?

    If you do believe that, then you believe against Christian principles. Once you are saved, you are supposed to hold yourself to a higher standard. The definition of a Christian is one who lives his life as Jesus Christ would. Right? By that definition, once you are saved you should put aside these drugs in order to live your life more purely.

    Would Jesus take these drugs you are taking?
    Can you feel 100% secure in the fact that you will go to Heaven, even though you are taking drugs that make your body work in an unnatural way (which is a sin)?

    If your answer is "yes", then good luck.
    Cmon now Forman, I like your style but this almost like saying take Tylenol is a sin because we all know NSAIDs work in unnatural ways. You also added (which is a sin) so I guess I am sinning almost everyday with a those Arginine Ethyl Esters for my regular pump. Lord knows how unnatural this form of Arginine is and Jesus never look for pumps nor does he push much iron. Sorry dude, but I'm just not convinced.

  10. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedForemanRules View Post
    This is why your religion is so weird to me.
    You don't listen to God... You listen to some guys, like Paul.. You seek guidance from a person who makes good points, but isn't 100% correct with everything he says.. Like his view of marriage.

    Nice work at trying to discredit the Bible, but we're cool with it like that!!!!!!


    1. God made us the way we are, to function the way we do - naturally, not artificially. - ( Psalm 139 )

    If this is as black and white as you put it, then we cannot take any medications whatsoever because they are all synthetic.
    2. God did make everybody different, for different reasons, to do different things... But according to Psalm, God did not create us to take drugs like AAS. How am I taking that out of context? How am I misinterpreting that?

    This could be a better discussion if it had to do with weed.. Beacuse weed is naturally occurring.. Like alcohol. But AAS is not in the same category as a naturally occurring herb or a fermented fruit. AAS are synthetic drugs to make your body operate in a way you want it to. God did not create AAS like he created herbs or alcohol.

    This particualr subject seems very, very black and white to me.
    What is known is that God does not want us to harm our bodies so my advice is for someone to do it under a the supervision of a specialist; or make sure you are 100% sure of what you are doing so you do not harm yourself. I guess that would include not buying something you are unsure of.

  11. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutal Master View Post
    LOL your putting being a homosexual in the same group as murder? haha
    Are you coming out the closet or have you done so already.

  12. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutal Master View Post
    does it really matter? he will tailor it to his liking or personal wants/needs/desires as any christian willl.
    Truth of the matter is, Christians do that a lot. This is the main reason we have thousands of people following homosexual leaders. It's not like those people are not aware of the fact that these leaders were gay and preaching the word of God, they were always aware of who those leaders were. They just wanted to have an excuse to live in the same mess or do worse.

  13. #149
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    WOW... When I started this question I never knew it would lead to such educated debate. I'm glad Mike had alot to say on this one. I'm also gald to see so many people agree on my thoughts about once saved it's very hard to be taken out of the book of life. Contrarey to redformanrules beliefs. His beliefs seem to be a bit to bible beater for me but I respect everyone and there beliefs. Mike I could not imagine loosing a child. I just don't feel god would do that to you onpurpose. He must have a reason and it may be shone to you later in life. I just would be totally numbed if that were to happen to me. Many people go through the same thing. Sometimes it brings you closer to god sometimes it pushes you further away. God is putting you through a huge test. The worst test anyone could go through. Thanks again for all your great input. Thanks everyone.

  14. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlj6710 View Post
    WOW... When I started this question I never knew it would lead to such educated debate. I'm glad Mike had alot to say on this one. I'm also gald to see so many people agree on my thoughts about once saved it's very hard to be taken out of the book of life. Contrarey to redformanrules beliefs. His beliefs seem to be a bit to bible beater for me but I respect everyone and there beliefs. Mike I could not imagine loosing a child. I just don't feel god would do that to you onpurpose. He must have a reason and it may be shone to you later in life. I just would be totally numbed if that were to happen to me. Many people go through the same thing. Sometimes it brings you closer to god sometimes it pushes you further away. God is putting you through a huge test. The worst test anyone could go through. Thanks again for all your great input. Thanks everyone.
    I think Forman is a big outrageous, but I stick with Forman on the fact that one can be taken out of the book of life after accepting Jesus. Saying this is not true is like saying someone can accept Jesus, then become a serial murder/rapist, moreover denying the existance of Christ and let's add that he prosecute Christians and rape little boys; if you are willing to tell me that this person will still be in the book of life because he was once saved, then be my guess. It is also stated in the bible, I just do not know it off the top of my head. I'm with Forman on this one.

  15. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Celt View Post
    Yes and No...


    Jesus always said that his followers should continue to follow Judaism, did he not?
    At no place in the NT does Jesus tell his followers to adhere to Judaism forever.

    At no point did he proclaim himself to be the founder of a new religion
    Not in those words, but by his very words, his commands themselves led followers in a new direction, with jesus himself as the "capstone"of their faith, as Jesus himself says "On this rock you will build my church" when speaking to Peter. Jesus was not referring to Peter, but of himself. Without posting an exhaustive list of scripture in order to reference this point, it was clea that Jesus intended for his followers to not only start a new church, but that Jesus himself would be the very focus of this church and he then goes onto expand the degree to which he expected his followers to spread this new religion, by commisioning them to "Preach this gospel to the very ends of the earth" before being taken up to heaven. Jesus leaves no doubt as to what his intentions were concerning his mission and pupose and what he intended his followers to do after he left them. To this day....it it still occuring.

    , all the reforms he wished to make were in the context of the system in place.
    The only "system" which was to be left in place was the moral system, or code of conduct, which had been previously handed down and which Jesus clarified and confirmed through his teaching and example here on Earth, when Jesus himself stated "Not one jot or tittle shall in no wise by removed from the law, until all be fullfilled".

    A last Supper may have taken place, but with much different meaning than what we have before us today.
    The bible makes clear the intention and meaning of the lastsupper, as Jesus himself stated it was to be done in "rememberance" of him and what he did. The Bible does not give any further intruction or place any additional meaning behind the last supper. Anything done today which goes beyond that goes beyond the Bible itself.

    Thus by creating a new religion with jesus as the basis and focus of that religion, current christians not only go against his teachings and wishes, but are also breaking at least two of the commandments...
    When scripture is read and understood within it's proper context, which is fairly simple to do concerning Jesus's intentions regarding his "church" (which we dubbed "christianity") we get a clear understanding that this is eactly what Jesus intended to be done, as he says so both directly and indirectly throughout the entire NT. In fact, Jesus's only purpose in empowering his followers was to build a "new" church and spread the gospel to the ends of the Earth. He states so very clearly.
    Last edited by Mike Arnold; November 26th, 2010 at 06:51 AM.

  16. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtyJ99 View Post
    Well don't turn your back on him now.

    I can't imagine loosing a child, but you should know as a man of faith that it was not god's will for that to happen.

    Like I said...what choices seem logical isn't always what's chosen.

  17. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfcruncher View Post
    Interesting take. While I could argue it, I abstain based on the fact that you inspire me to think about your interpretation. I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing, but simply appreciating what you bring to the table here. I'm left wondering if we're possibly not on the same page here.
    Because the jews of Judaism rejected Jesus as the messiah...there was no choice, but to start a new "church".

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