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View Poll Results: How much you take in carbs daily..? (MAX. FAT LOSS)

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  • Less than 60 grams (a ketogenic diet)

    182 36.11%
  • About 100 grams

    96 19.05%
  • 100-150 grams

    96 19.05%
  • 150-200 grams

    95 18.85%
  • AM, this poll sucked!

    35 6.94%
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Thread: Carbs and fat loss

  1. #18
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    The actual grams of carbs daily isn't as a important as the actual glycemic load for the day. Many people dont know how fat loss or fat gain really occur. Let me explain. When you eat carbohydrates they are metabolized into sugar and enter the blood stream. At that point your pancreas is signaled to release insulin. Insulin is the hormone responsible for removing the nutrients out of the blood and into the muscle cell. The best way to explain is by using this example. Picture a cell having two halves. The top half and the bottom half. The top we will call the fat cell and the bottom the muscle cell. Insulin ONLY enters the fat cell at a high enough threshold. If the threshold is not high enough the nutrients will be disposed of into the muscle cell. The same is true for fat loss. When the body is metabolizing body fat over the course of your diet you have fat circulating in the blood. As long as the insulin threshold is kept low enough your body will dispose of the circulating fat and not RE-STORE it back into the fat cell. I personally use a glucometer to monitor blood sugar to guarantee it never to raise high enough to cause a problem
    Last edited by Tipsta; June 19th, 2007 at 10:46 PM.

  2. #19
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Another great trick Are GDA's. They work with insulin allowing the body to remove the same amount of blood sugar at a far lower insulin threshold. They basically supress insulin and dispose of glycogen.

    I AM DRUG FREE FOR LIFE AND ONLY USE OTC GDA'S!

  3. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsta View Post
    Another great trick Are GDA's. They work with insulin allowing the body to remove the same amount of blood sugar at a far lower insulin threshold. They basically supress insulin and dispose of glycogen.

    I AM DRUG FREE FOR LIFE AND ONLY USE OTC GDA'S!
    please give me a list of these gda's and serving sizes. it sounds amazing.

  4. #21

    Default

    Is this guy gonna explain where the hell "GDA's" come from - this thread is reading like an infomercial...

  5. #22

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    Anssi,

    On page 50 of Iron Man magazine December 2007 it appears an article written by Becky Holman which says: POST WORKOUT CARBS WON`T FEED YOUR FAT CELLS. RESEARCHERS TESTED WHAT HAPPENED WHEN SUBJECTS GOT A 100 GRAM DOSE OF HIGH GLYCEMIC INDEX CARBS IMMEDIATELY AFTER A HIGH EXERCISE SESSION AND IT ACTUALLY INCREASED FAT BURNING. This statement would bring as a consequence that it`s not necessary to make a ketogenic diet to lose fat, what`s your opinion on this?

  6. #23
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    Good. question.
    Also, what the hell are "GDAs"??

  7. #24
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palchod View Post
    Good. question.
    Also, what the hell are "GDAs"??

    Read the sticky thread in the performance section.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
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  8. #25
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    The actual grams of carbs daily isn't as a important as the actual glycemic load for the day. Many people dont know how fat loss or fat gain really occur. Let me explain. When you eat carbohydrates they are metabolized into sugar and enter the blood stream. At that point your pancreas is signaled to release insulin. Insulin is the hormone responsible for removing the nutrients out of the blood and into the muscle cell. The best way to explain is by using this example. Picture a cell having two halves. The top half and the bottom half. The top we will call the fat cell and the bottom the muscle cell. Insulin ONLY enters the fat cell at a high enough threshold. If the threshold is not high enough the nutrients will be disposed of into the muscle cell. The same is true for fat loss. When the body is metabolizing body fat over the course of your diet you have fat circulating in the blood. As long as the insulin threshold is kept low enough your body will dispose of the circulating fat and not RE-STORE it back into the fat cell. I personally use a glucometer to monitor blood sugar to guarantee it never to raise high enough to cause a problem
    If I am understanding this correctly, you would want your blood sugar levels to stay at the optimal 90 to 110 range after a meal especially to promote the carb (sugar) to be used or taken into the Muscle section not the fat section. Being a type one diabetic this would mean that my insuline levels post meal are even more important for muscle growth and the avoidance of stored fat? Otherwise that sugar in my bloodstream will be used or stored as fat?

    Riff

  9. #26
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riff View Post
    If I am understanding this correctly, you would want your blood sugar levels to stay at the optimal 90 to 110 range after a meal especially to promote the carb (sugar) to be used or taken into the Muscle section not the fat section. Being a type one diabetic this would mean that my insuline levels post meal are even more important for muscle growth and the avoidance of stored fat? Otherwise that sugar in my bloodstream will be used or stored as fat?

    Riff

    90 to 110 is baseline after you have removed the sugar. 160 to about 200 is what you want 1/2 hour after meal.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
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  10. #27

    Exclamation GDA's

    GDA= Glucose Disposal Agents

    Alpha Lipoic Acid*
    Chromium Picoliconate*
    Cinnamon*
    Gynnema Sylvestre
    Vanadyle Sulfate


    * I have used these particulars before, work well with refeed meals by preventing spill over, bloat, headaches, sleepiness, lethary from the huge carb intake. I never go without them for refeed purposes.

    PS....I go about 150 grams tops when going for max fat loss, carbs taken in only at breakfast, pre and post workout, all complex. I also do weekly or even bi-weekly refeed nights when dieting. Never liked the idea of Keto dieting, no way!
    MS - Human Sport Performance
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  11. #28

    Default why not ketogenic diet

    Quote Originally Posted by oregonpanthers View Post
    GDA= Glucose Disposal Agents

    Alpha Lipoic Acid*
    Chromium Picoliconate*
    Cinnamon*
    Gynnema Sylvestre
    Vanadyle Sulfate


    * I have used these particulars before, work well with refeed meals by preventing spill over, bloat, headaches, sleepiness, lethary from the huge carb intake. I never go without them for refeed purposes.

    PS....I go about 150 grams tops when going for max fat loss, carbs taken in only at breakfast, pre and post workout, all complex. I also do weekly or even bi-weekly refeed nights when dieting. Never liked the idea of Keto dieting, no way!
    Oregonpanthers: why not a ketogenic diet, could you tell me the disadvantages?What`s your opinion about emptying glucogen for 3 days?

  12. #29

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    I am not nessesarily against Keto diets in general. For some they work very well and they swear by there effectiveness. I myself have found I dont process higher fat diets as well as they can. It may be metabolic factors of uncoupling proteins, fatty acid metabolism and oxidation or a host of other physiological differences that just do not work to my advantage. I have went through 7-8 weeks Keto diets before and gotten no better results then I had with equal duration diets when low carbs were consumed (150g max per day). I feel I have more training energy on the lower carbs as well compared to Keto dieting.

    I do however give me vote to the depleating tactic used for 2-3 days pre contest by many bodybuilders before a contest. For my sake and that of my clients this traditional approach of 2-3 days depletion and then 2-3 days loading is a good rule of thumb to stick to. Again, for some it works,for others it does not.
    MS - Human Sport Performance
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  13. #30

    Default Training Low carbs Vs High carbs.

    Quote Originally Posted by oregonpanthers View Post
    I am not nessesarily against Keto diets in general. For some they work very well and they swear by there effectiveness. I myself have found I dont process higher fat diets as well as they can. It may be metabolic factors of uncoupling proteins, fatty acid metabolism and oxidation or a host of other physiological differences that just do not work to my advantage. I have went through 7-8 weeks Keto diets before and gotten no better results then I had with equal duration diets when low carbs were consumed (150g max per day). I feel I have more training energy on the lower carbs as well compared to Keto dieting.

    I do however give me vote to the depleating tactic used for 2-3 days pre contest by many bodybuilders before a contest. For my sake and that of my clients this traditional approach of 2-3 days depletion and then 2-3 days loading is a good rule of thumb to stick to. Again, for some it works,for others it does not.
    oregonpanthers.When you are on diet low in carbs the type of training I assume is different to when you are on a diet high in carbs.
    Training on a low carb-diet: reps between 6-12, sets for big muscles from 12-16, rests between series : 60-120 seconds, no tri-sets, no drop sets, eventually forced sets, negative reps, trainings shouldn`t be more than an hour, training with lifts: between 4-5 times a week.
    Training with high carbs: when having more energetic sources reps can be higher, there can be super series, tri-series, recovery is higher, there`s more amount of muscular glucogen.
    I ask you cause in the gym where I am people who train and want to lose fat, for instance in a definition program they train more and eat less which I think doesn`t make sense, I`d like to have your opinion cause my focus is of a natural body builder, I don`t use steroids.I think this way the game is much more difficult (excuse my ignorance, but for what I`ve seen, steroids many times hide many failures of training and nutrition. Thanks.

  14. #31

    Thumbs up Yes and No

    Your right in that a natural bodybuilder can pull off a low carb diet while training in a lower rep range with heavier weights and slightly longer rest periods. Gylcogenolysis is note as high in this kind of training as it would be in higher rep training with shorter rests and slightly less weight.

    This assumes that no supersets, tri-sets, giant sets, drop sets etc...are employed in the pure strength style program while low carbs are followed.

    When you utilize a higher volume program with higher reps and sets and shorter breaks as you made note to in your post then yes yet should couple that training with higher carbs because of the substrate utilization from glycogen. Many people do seem to use a backwards stratagy for reasons beyond me.

    To some extent a small macronutrient deficit must exist either way for a dieting bodybuilder for obvious reasons. But for an off-season bodybuilder who is drug free then its a simple positive linear relationship for training volume and carbs as well as for lower training volume and less carbs.

    More volume, short rest, higher reps, advanced failure principles = much more carbs

    Less volume, more intensity, more weight, lower reps, longer rest, straight sets = less carbs
    MS - Human Sport Performance
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  15. #32
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Steroids are Osmotic. CarboHYDRATES are as well. No carbs=no hydration of the cell for a drug free athlete. Not a great protocol for an ecto especially without that safety net we know all so well as.......GEAR! Bodytypes dictate diet strategies.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
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  16. #33

    Default

    Tipsta,

    Do you know where I can find a good eating plan for an Endomorph? I'm totally flying by the seat of my pants, and so far I've gained muscle. BUT I don't think I've lost much fat. I"m getting stronger, but I'm not getting any leaner.

    THANKS!
    A country boy can survive ...

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  17. #34
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gntlben View Post
    Tipsta,

    Do you know where I can find a good eating plan for an Endomorph? I'm totally flying by the seat of my pants, and so far I've gained muscle. BUT I don't think I've lost much fat. I"m getting stronger, but I'm not getting any leaner.

    THANKS!
    With all this info here you still dont know what to eat?

    I use a starting point that Dan Duchaine would call his saturation point. Meaning the point of carb intake that would totally fuel all your activities and fill the muscle virtually 100% with glycogen as well.
    I take LBM multiply that times 2.35 then subtract anywhere from 50 to 150 depending on body type, activity, GDA use etc.

    Protein I use 1.5 to 2 grams per pound LBM including the protein from carbs as well.

    Fats I start at 15% of total calories including calories in itself.

    Its that easy!

    Also, remember, if you eat too low of a carb intake for too long a period of time your body will adapt and creating a deficit will be difficult to impossible. Knowing this, you must first make sure this is not an issue and if it is you must first correct it before you begin to TRY to create a deficit.

    I put all my people at saturation for 3 to 7 days before I begin their diets to assure the diet causes a deficit.
    Last edited by Tipsta; March 16th, 2008 at 10:28 AM.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
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