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Thread: Layne Norton : Question hydro whey vs. free form BCAA

  1. #18
    Iron Addict TooPowerful4u's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paradox View Post
    You will see the difference between blue tops and Human grade GH though.
    how much of a difference? $400 dfference?

  2. #19
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    doesnt whey cause an insulin spike POST-WO for better utilization of carb intake POST-WO? just a side question dont know if bcaa's do the same thing or not

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    I supplement with EEA's & extra leucine intra w/o. BCAA's between meals during off season are a waste of money IMO. Different story precontest though.

  4. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyinhawaiian View Post
    doesnt whey cause an insulin spike POST-WO for better utilization of carb intake POST-WO? just a side question dont know if bcaa's do the same thing or not


    there's been research showing that whey was better than free-form EAA when taken PWO, but they standardized both for EAA content, which means that 10g EAA was compared to 20g whey (containing 10g EAA). obviously the extra 10g of NEAA would cause some increase in insulin secretion, provide extra nitrogen, etc. in a case like this.

    When comparing apples to apples, the free-form product usually wins out for the leucine dose, as Layne mentioned.
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    It's not a matter of what's better...as they both supply unqiue benefits. The primary benefits of BCAAs (particularly leucine) is their ability to enhance protien synthesis when added to whole proteins, above what will be experienced by consuming whole proteins alone. They can also be taken inbetween meals in order to illicit an additional anabolic response that would otherwise be absent. Free form aminos cannot replace whole proteins (well I guess they could, but we would miss out on many of the benefits whole proteins provide), but they can compliment them. The usage of both is ideal.

    If any one single free-from amino was to be utilized in addition to whole proteins, it would be leucine by a long shot....no comparison. Many whole foods consumed in normal quanities do not supply an amount of leucine, which will maximally stimulate protein synthesis, so Leucine is a great supplement for BB'rs.

  6. #23
    Amateur Threat House.'s Avatar
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    Doesn't Hydro Whey (or any whey) contain BCAAS, although not free form but still deliver them to the muscle?
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    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    It's not a matter of what's better...as they both supply unqiue benefits. The primary benefits of BCAAs (particularly leucine) is their ability to enhance protien synthesis when added to whole proteins, above what will be experienced by consuming whole proteins alone. They can also be taken inbetween meals in order to illicit an additional anabolic response that would otherwise be absent. Free form aminos cannot replace whole proteins (well I guess they could, but we would miss out on many of the benefits whole proteins provide), but they can compliment them. The usage of both is ideal.

    If any one single free-from amino was to be utilized in addition to whole proteins, it would be leucine by a long shot....no comparison. Many whole foods consumed in normal quanities do not supply an amount of leucine, which will maximally stimulate protein synthesis, so Leucine is a great supplement for BB'rs.
    agreed
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  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    agreed
    well the thing is too, it's likely the average weight of these subjects is around 160 lbs. 30g X 5 meals per day = 150g protien per day. That's really not that far off.

    and our research suggests 0.045g leucine per lb bodyweight will max muscle protein synthesis, but it may be less than that; we just know that amount will max it.

    -Layne
    With that said, I have no clue why you would intake 250-275 g of protein when your body reaches maximal protein synthesis at 12.5 g of leucine, which is 160 or around there. All I know is it takes 30-40 g of protein to equal 3-4 grams of leucine.

  9. #26
    Forum Legend RockyIII's Avatar
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    what if i use the same wolesale brand whey protein whenever i need a shake, whether that s pre`or post workout, before bedtime, in the morning etc.? am i gonna lose muscle?
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  10. #27
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcjha View Post
    well the thing is too, it's likely the average weight of these subjects is around 160 lbs. 30g X 5 meals per day = 150g protien per day. That's really not that far off.

    and our research suggests 0.045g leucine per lb bodyweight will max muscle protein synthesis, but it may be less than that; we just know that amount will max it.

    -Layne
    With that said, I have no clue why you would intake 250-275 g of protein when your body reaches maximal protein synthesis at 12.5 g of leucine, which is 160 or around there. All I know is it takes 30-40 g of protein to equal 3-4 grams of leucine.
    because I enjoy protein and there are some other benefits above the threshold for maximal protein synthesis like increased thermogenesis. If I was very ectomorphic I'd probably swap out less protein in favor of more carbs/fats
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  11. #28
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcjha View Post
    well the thing is too, it's likely the average weight of these subjects is around 160 lbs. 30g X 5 meals per day = 150g protien per day. That's really not that far off.

    and our research suggests 0.045g leucine per lb bodyweight will max muscle protein synthesis, but it may be less than that; we just know that amount will max it.

    -Layne
    With that said, I have no clue why you would intake 250-275 g of protein when your body reaches maximal protein synthesis at 12.5 g of leucine, which is 160 or around there. All I know is it takes 30-40 g of protein to equal 3-4 grams of leucine.
    i'm also much larger than the average 160 lb test subject.

    I'm not an idiot dude, I've thought this stuff out I assure you
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  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by paradox View Post
    Does it really matter?

    No.

    that .5 lb of muscle gain over 5 years isnt worth the headache
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  13. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutal Master View Post
    No.

    that .5 lb of muscle gain over 5 years isnt worth the headache
    i was just thinking that. i have a client at my gym that i have him currently eat 10 ounces of red meat as his last meal. last week i get a txt from him at around midnight telling me he didnt know was out of red meat!LOL! i tried to calm him down and told him to just eat an extra meal of chicken for that night. so he asked me if it was gonna affect his workout the following day and burn some muscle LOL!!!
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  14. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8flexed View Post
    i'm also much larger than the average 160 lb test subject.

    I'm not an idiot dude, I've thought this stuff out I assure you
    Na Layne, just trying to make sense. You and a few others are why I'm contemplating whether or not I should study all the way and get my phd in nutrition science. Of course you're much larger. When I was naive, I looked at your videos and thought u were small, at least way back in 2005, compared to other pro bodybuilders, which of course is true. I looked at the pro bodybuilder pics and told myself one day I'll get to their size naturally. Boy, was I wrong, and not only that, I looked at videos of myself and when I thought was decent size, I was HALF of what you were in 2006 in every major body part. You're much bigger now and I was blown away when I saw your "feathered" quads.

    P.S. based on the science you think 200g is more than enough or more like only sufficient for someone who's at 170 lb 14%bf? I swear I can never break this weight. I always manage to crawl back to it if I'm at 165 and the one day I'm 172, a few days later back at 170. It's like my body is really fighting to maintain that weight, of course with the same leanness, never leaner, only fatter at times.

  15. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutal Master View Post
    No.

    that .5 lb of muscle gain over 5 years isnt worth the headache
    it's more like 2 lb of muscle a year.

  16. #33
    Forum Legend RockyIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcjha View Post
    it's more like 2 lb of muscle a year.
    show me proof and i will take my words back
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  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyIII View Post
    show me proof and i will take my words back
    YOW Lyle's bold saying 26 lb of muscle can be gained. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...mass-gain.html

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