diagnosed with a DVT (Blood Clot)....how should i be training!?

[Matt Dawson]

This past week I was diagnosed with Deep vein thrombosis in my upper thigh. The doc i went to immediately did about 12 different blood tests, and instantly put me on an a blood thinner that i inject into my stomach for the first 7 days and also coumadin. I find out the results to the blood tests this week. I asked him about training and he said i could continue training normally... I dont know if he realizes that i am a Professional Strongman that pounds the heavy ass weight. He really didnt tell me much as far as what i could do and couldnt do. I realize that i probably shouldnt be deadlifting 800lbs till its cleared up, but i wanted to know what kind of training would be okay. I planned on doing more of a body builider routine, with more reps, less weight. I also immediately came off all my "supplements" and will start a pct right away. I wanted to get your thoughts on this.

[WisconsinBB]

And you come here for advice instead of asking your doctor more detailed questions because..............?

[Matt Dawson]

I am on here to see if anybody else has had similar experiences. That plus the fact that most docs are clueless when it comes to "supplements" and training. My doc was an old fat man who looks like he never stepped foot into a gym.

[Swede]

Did you Tell him you were a professional strongman and lifts Really heavy weights?

And use aas that increases bp? Do you keep an eyey on your bp?

[bolsen]

this thread wont get you much help, im afraid.

[oldtimmy]

ummmm ya w/e man go crazy if u die from an an aneurysm... WHO CARES just remember you went out swinging and doing the things you love

[paradox]

Relax your self, Its relatively serious, I'm not sure if your doctor actually told you the seriousness of this situation, but its serious enough to kill you with out any warning on the spot. Do you have a wife or kid(s)? At this point, I would be afraid of pushing hard on the toilet let alone concerned about training. Your a Pro at nothing if your in a casket, fuck that they have the trophies and the cheesy youtube tribute videos.

Rest up, chill out, go on cruise control and minimized any strain your body and blood pressure, It means reducing your supplemental dosage well. There nothing honorable about death, your not a hero people don't give a shit.

BTW what blood thinners are you on?
What was the Doctors protocol for this?

I wouldn't recommended coming off your supplements cold turkey, you can cruise @HRT levels. Coming off cold turkey that too can fluctuate you BP and hormonal workings. Tapper it down to just enough to "feed your hormones" I read about and personally tried that as well.

If your on GH and Slin, I honestly can't give you the 411 on the physiological impact it will have should you continue or if it does...BUT logic would say that at this point, anything your giving the body that it doesn't need needs to be cut off.

See about contacting a ENDO on this just to be safe, even with HRT level test, it can/may/will have some effect on you.

[paradox]

Something else to keep in mind before self medicating from your " bro" Even simple Test usage has effects on blood, Ive read about several instances of blood being "thickened" due to testosterone usage...Take it for what its worth and seek out a full blood test, check your calcium levels, Free T and all that other good stuff.

Find out what your test levels are now, tell the endo you need to a test done ASAP and see what they will say about even staying on or coming off test completely. My edumicated guess, they will say to stop cold turkey.

[GeorgeForemanRules]

Bottom line is if that clot breaks off and goes to your brain you are dead.

Now, do you really have to ask about heavy weight lifting?

[Meathead.]

wtf caused that? any symptoms

[MaxC]

Sorry to hear about your problem.

The doc put you on Heparin (most likely, LMWH, aka Low Molecular Weight Heparin) for the first seven Days. This is the Drug that patients inject into their abdomen post-surgery to prevent DVTs. It is very common and very effective. A DVT is the most common post-surgical complication because the blood in the legs remains static because all the patient can do is lie in bed. This is dangerous because if a clot forms in the legs it can move to the lungs when blood flow is restored. A massive PE can be fatal, and a series of minor PEs can decrease your lung capacity. It is HIGHLY unlikely, almost impossible that you will have a massive PE given that you are on the medications.

LMWH is necessary for the first 5-7 Days because because the Wafarin (aka Coumadin) which you are taking will not begin to work for seven days. The drugs work by different mechanism. The Warfarin Prevents Vitamin K from being absorbed, and Vitamin K is needed for your body to add a gamma carboxylated group to a few of the protein factors in your clotting cascade. The half-life of some of these clotting factors is approximately 3-7 days.

Your main concern over the next few days is to prevent propagation of the clot to your lungs. And to wait for the heparin to work. I hate to suggest to people that they not workout, because I used to hate when doctors did that to me, but it is probably in your best interest to strongly consider at least taking it much easier over the next couple days. If you workout very intensely before the drug has taken effect then the increased blood flow could prove to be enough to dislodge the clot from the vein wall in your leg and cause it to travel up to your lungs where it can cause a Pulmonary embolism. If you notice that you are short of breath at all over the next couple days in a way that is out of the norm please do go immediately to the doctor, or ER. I really hate suggesting that people not workout.

One other thing that might be of interest to you and relevant here is this. Things that increase your risk of DVT in the future are things you probably want to avoid. They are called Virchow's Triad, which you could probably look up on Wikipedia if you chose. They are 1. Venous Stasis (which is a result of sitting too long) 2. Hypercoagulable State (which can be the result of birth control pills, and Other Hormones, SMOKING, Cancer, and inherited coagulation disorders) and 3. Endothelial Injury -which can be the result of shear stress on the vessel wall due to hypertension.

A classic scenario is the case of a 25-35 year old woman on birth control pills who just took a long plane flight. She will come into the doctor's office complaining of shortness of breath because and she could have had a much better chance of preventing it if she got up and walked a little bit while on the plane.

If I were you, I would try in the future to make sure that you do not remain seated for more than a couple hours at a time. And if you are considering getting back on the hormones, consider monitoring your blood pressure, and possibly taking medications for that if yours gets elevated over 140/90 while on any other supplements. Also, You might want to consider asking your doctor to evaluate you for any inherited coagulation disorders if he is not already doing that and try to think if there is anyone in your family that has had any episodes of clotting, you also may consider evaluation for liver or kidney function, and electrolytes. That would be pretty thorough.

The other supplements you might take as a professional strongman can lead to a hypercoagulable state the same way that oral contraceptives can and this can be exacerbated by any episode of stasis (prolonged sitting that may occur). So if on anything in the future then it is good to keep moving to prevent clot formation, but for the next few days it would be best to not do any intense lifting or walking around so that you can avoid moving that clot that has formed in your leg to the lungs.

[MaxC]

Sorry, I repeated myself a couple times.

Would you mind sharing your symptoms? Was it just leg pain? And did you ride on a plane in the past couple days or do anything else where you were seated for a long time, or up the dosage of your personal supplements higher than you had done before, or use something that was different from the things you had used before? Please do not feel obligated to share any of these things if you don't want to, but they are some questions that you may want to ask yourself IF you have not already.

It is unlikely that the clot will go to your brain and kill you unless you have a particular congenital heart defect (atrial septal defect.) But it could certainly go to your lungs and that could kill you. You want to avoid moving around to much to avoid dislodging the clot from the wall. Straining on the toilet probably would not be a big deal as that does not greatly affect the rate of blood flow coming back from the legs to the heart, but any major use of the leg muscles would greatly increase the rate of flow from the body so please don't do that for the next few days, and consider lower the dosage of the other supps like the other guys said, and then you are good.

[MaxC]

Oh yeah...One more thing....A DVT in your upper thigh IS BAD. This is because the Upper thigh DVT is the one that most commonly causes a Pulmonary embolism. More DVTs form in the lower leg than in the upper because there is more stasis in the lower leg, but for whatever reason, the ones that form in the lower leg do not dislodge and propagate all the way to the lungs nearly as often as the DVTs from the upper thigh.

Hope all that helps.

[Howard]

I am on here to see if anybody else has had similar experiences. That plus the fact that most docs are clueless when it comes to "supplements" and training. My doc was an old fat man who looks like he never stepped foot into a gym.

An older MD has years of experience dealing with health issues and in helping cure a serious disease.
You have what, may well be, a serious medical condition. Listen to your doctor and forget about what he looks like.
Plenty of great coaches in every sport are old and heavy , yet the players still value their advice .

Performance in a strongman contest is very different from overall vasucular health and trauma.

[MaxC]

Here is the bottom line answer to your question...

DID THE DOCTOR THROMBOLYSE YOU? In other words, DID HE DISSOLVE the CLOT? If he did then you can resume working out as usual. If he didn't you need to wait two weeks. You would know if he did this because he would have placed you on your belly and stuck a catheter in your leg, and used ultrasound guidance to find the clot and then dissolve it with tPA. If he didn't thrombolyse you then you need to wait a week or two for the clot to adhere to your leg before doing lower body exercise.

Also, obviously take the warfarin and heparin that he gave you, do PCT as you suggested, and in the future be sure that you are not sitting in any positions with your legs in a bent position for an extended period of time while on a high dose of stuff.

Good luck

PS, are you sure that you have a deep vein thrombosis and not a superficial vein thrombophlebitis?

[MaxC]

An older MD has years of experience dealing with health issues and in helping cure a serious disease.
You have what, may well be, a serious medical condition. Listen to your doctor and forget about what he looks like.
Plenty of great coaches in every sport are old and heavy , yet the players still value their advice .

Performance in a strongman contest is very different from overall vasucular health and trauma.

I don't think he is doubting the good doctor in a bad way. He seems to be acting rational and cautious manner, in doubting that he should "continue training normally" as the doctor suggested. He seems to be aware of the fact that he had a major problem.

He also seems aware, as many on these boards are, that many doctors do not know much about lifting, or nutrition, or health, or aas, and was able to infer from the look of the man that he might be among this group so he wants to make sure that he did not receive dangerous advice by double checking with people who spend time thinking about these issues specific to lifters.

[bigoso]

solid advice here from MaxC....this is a serious condition you have here, not sure if your doc made it clear how serious this is. You will more than likely be on the coumadin for at least a couple of years as now you are at risk of another DVT. Leading up to this had you had any blood work done? Were your hemaglobin and hematocrit elevated? This (polycythemia) is very common in those who use "supplements" and can put you at more risk for DVT's