diagnosed with a DVT (Blood Clot)....how should i be training!?

[Matt Dawson]

I don't think he is doubting the good doctor in a bad way. He seems to be acting rational and cautious manner, in doubting that he should "continue training normally" as the doctor suggested. He seems to be aware of the fact that he had a major problem.

He also seems aware, as many on these boards are, that many doctors do not know much about lifting, or nutrition, or health, or aas, and was able to infer from the look of the man that he might be among this group so he wants to make sure that he did not receive dangerous advice by double checking with people who spend time thinking about these issues specific to lifters.

Thank You, this is all i was seeking. I simply wanted to see if anybody had any personal experience with this issue. Yes it is DVT, not a superficial clot. It is located in my upper thigh, which was causing calf pain and swelling. After the ultrasound the doc immediately had me on heparin, injecting into the stomach for the first 5 days, then the coumadin (an oral tablet) will kick in. My doc told me that i could continue training, that nothing i could do could do would increase the chances of it doslodging (which i found hard to believe). He told me NOT TO SIT AROUND AND DO NOTHING. He reccommended training and cardio, as the increased blood flow HELPS THE BLOOD THINNERS DO THEIR JOB. I just dont know if he realized the training i do, even when I told him, i dont think he really understood. His idea of heavy training is probably 10lb dumbbell curls for 50 reps. To be safe i am backing off on the heavy weights and working in the 50-65% rep ranges.

My blood pressure is a perfect 117/78.

The 12 different blood tests come back this week. Hopefully this will determine why i got this clot to begin with.

The doc did not THROMBOLYSE me.

I had no long trips, no plane rides, nothing out of the ordinary for me supplement wise.

[Howard]

I don't think he is doubting the good doctor in a bad way. He seems to be acting rational and cautious manner, in doubting that he should "continue training normally" as the doctor suggested. He seems to be aware of the fact that he had a major problem.

He also seems aware, as many on these boards are, that many doctors do not know much about lifting, or nutrition, or health, or aas, and was able to infer from the look of the man that he might be among this group so he wants to make sure that he did not receive dangerous advice by double checking with people who spend time thinking about these issues specific to lifters.

For me the issue at hand is a serious blod clot in his leg. That is serious and it doesn't matter if he is a strongman or a ballet dancer.
A blot clot in your leg is still a blood clot in your leg!

[Howard]

Thank You, this is all i was seeking. I simply wanted to see if anybody had any personal experience with this issue. Yes it is DVT, not a superficial clot. It is located in my upper thigh, which was causing calf pain and swelling. After the ultrasound the doc immediately had me on heparin, injecting into the stomach for the first 5 days, then the coumadin (an oral tablet) will kick in. My doc told me that i could continue training, that nothing i could do could do would increase the chances of it doslodging (which i found hard to believe). He told me NOT TO SIT AROUND AND DO NOTHING. He reccommended training and cardio, as the increased blood flow HELPS THE BLOOD THINNERS DO THEIR JOB. I just dont know if he realized the training i do, even when I told him, i dont think he really understood. His idea of heavy training is probably 10lb dumbbell curls for 50 reps. To be safe i am backing off on the heavy weights and working in the 50-65% rep ranges.

My blood pressure is a perfect 117/78.

The 12 different blood tests come back this week. Hopefully this will determine why i got this clot to begin with.

The doc did not THROMBOLYSE me.

I had no long trips, no plane rides, nothing out of the ordinary for me supplement wise.

I don't want to make anyone as big and strong as YOU, very mad or insult you.
BUT, for your own sake, take care of the blood clot first and don't even worry about any training in the gym right now.
Dead men don't lift much wt my friend. Please be careful and use good sense here.
All the best to you.

[TheLion]

Really sorry to hear that, Matt. Why don't you ask the Anabolic Doctor or other experts? I know you said it has nothing to do with your supplements, but he might have some insight on it. You've nothing to lose.

Wish you a speedy recovery.

[GeorgeForemanRules]

Really sorry to hear that, Matt. Why don't you ask the Anabolic Doctor ?

He did and as usual the Anabolic Doctor gave him horrible advice proving once again he is not a real Doctor.


Matt, bottom line is you should do no training until your clot is gone....no training at all. This is simple 101 medical advice, any dunce with low level medical training knows this. Many would even recommend bed rest.

If that clot breaks off it will most likely go to your lungs and you will then have a Pulmonary Embolism. If that happens you have a very high chance of death.


"At least 100,000 cases of PE occur each year in the United States. PE is the third most common cause of death in hospitalized patients. If left untreated, about 30 percent of patients who have PE will die. Most of those who die do so within the first few hours of the event"

[MaxC]

Thank You, this is all i was seeking. I simply wanted to see if anybody had any personal experience with this issue. Yes it is DVT, not a superficial clot. It is located in my upper thigh, which was causing calf pain and swelling. After the ultrasound the doc immediately had me on heparin, injecting into the stomach for the first 5 days, then the coumadin (an oral tablet) will kick in. My doc told me that i could continue training, that nothing i could do could do would increase the chances of it doslodging (which i found hard to believe). He told me NOT TO SIT AROUND AND DO NOTHING. He reccommended training and cardio, as the increased blood flow HELPS THE BLOOD THINNERS DO THEIR JOB. I just dont know if he realized the training i do, even when I told him, i dont think he really understood. His idea of heavy training is probably 10lb dumbbell curls for 50 reps. To be safe i am backing off on the heavy weights and working in the 50-65% rep ranges.

My blood pressure is a perfect 117/78.

The 12 different blood tests come back this week. Hopefully this will determine why i got this clot to begin with.

The doc did not THROMBOLYSE me.

I had no long trips, no plane rides, nothing out of the ordinary for me supplement wise.

Thank You, this is all i was seeking. I simply wanted to see if anybody had any personal experience with this issue. Yes it is DVT, not a superficial clot. It is located in my upper thigh, which was causing calf pain and swelling. After the ultrasound the doc immediately had me on heparin, injecting into the stomach for the first 5 days, then the coumadin (an oral tablet) will kick in. My doc told me that i could continue training, that nothing i could do could do would increase the chances of it doslodging (which i found hard to believe). He told me NOT TO SIT AROUND AND DO NOTHING. He reccommended training and cardio, as the increased blood flow HELPS THE BLOOD THINNERS DO THEIR JOB. I just dont know if he realized the training i do, even when I told him, i dont think he really understood. His idea of heavy training is probably 10lb dumbbell curls for 50 reps. To be safe i am backing off on the heavy weights and working in the 50-65% rep ranges.

My blood pressure is a perfect 117/78.

The 12 different blood tests come back this week. Hopefully this will determine why i got this clot to begin with.

The doc did not THROMBOLYSE me.

I had no long trips, no plane rides, nothing out of the ordinary for me supplement wise.

Ok. That's good information. Thank you.

Could you tell me how long you had been having the pain in your leg?

IF the pain began over 2 weeks ago then most likely the CLOT has become ADHERENT to the wall of the vein in your leg and there is NOTHING you can do to increase the chances that it will detach from the wall and propagate to your lungs, just as your doctor said.

However, if it has not yet been two weeks then I would call up VASCULAR SURGEON, or interventional radiologist, in your area IMMEDIATELY and see if he will thrombolyse it for you, as this intervention is typically very successful in younger people at decreasing the long-term likelihood of venous insufficiency as a potential long-term sequelae.

However, be aware that thrombolysis will not decrease your risk of a PE only the risk of venous insufficiency. In fact the thrombolysis could actually increase the risk of a PE, unless the surgeon places a vena-caval filter. Thrombolysis could increase the risk of a PE by breaking off pieces of the clot to travel back to your lungs. If the caval filter is in place they will get caught by the filter before they get back to the heart and pumped into the lungs. The main benefit of the thrombolysis would be to decrease the risk for long-term venous insufficiency.

Bottom-Line...If you have not had the pain for more than 2 weeks yet then go find a doc to THROMBOLYSE YOU.

A VASCULAR/CARDIOVASCULAR (not Cardiac) SURGEON has special expertise in this area...An interventional radiologist should also be able to perform this procedure. You could obviously also go back to the doctor who is giving you the coumadin and see if he is willing to refer you for this so long as you do not mention that you got the idea from the internet, or worse yet, a message board. Doctors Hate that.

Good luck

[Manowar]

I would not train, take the week off. you do not want the chance of the clot passing to your Lungs and end up with a Pulmonary embolisium. Let the Clot busters do there job, take the week off and grow. I am a Nurse not a Doc.

What Foreman said.

[Brutal Master]

man this is scary stuff. How old are you? makes me wonder if we shouldnt even be using even TRT doses, let alone 400mg of test a week on occasion.

[408]

There is a real doctor on this forum apparently, and no I do not mean the 'anabolic doctor'. Listen to maxc, and get to work on reducing your risk of an embolism asap!

Depending on what gear you run you may want to stop asap. Test/tren/eq raise RBC production, I would not take ANY risks if I were you. DVT is VERY serious, I would not consider training although you do want to stay active.

I am not a doctor (yet) but I would say at this point you should be doing everything possible to reduce the risks to your health, at the expense of muscle or strength or whatever. You can always rebuild.

[Matt Dawson]

Ok. That's good information. Thank you.

Could you tell me how long you had been having the pain in your leg?

IF the pain began over 2 weeks ago then most likely the CLOT has become ADHERENT to the wall of the vein in your leg and there is NOTHING you can do to increase the chances that it will detach from the wall and propagate to your lungs, just as your doctor said.

However, if it has not yet been two weeks then I would call up VASCULAR SURGEON, or interventional radiologist, in your area IMMEDIATELY and see if he will thrombolyse it for you, as this intervention is typically very successful in younger people at decreasing the long-term likelihood of venous insufficiency as a potential long-term sequelae.

However, be aware that thrombolysis will not decrease your risk of a PE only the risk of venous insufficiency. In fact the thrombolysis could actually increase the risk of a PE, unless the surgeon places a vena-caval filter. Thrombolysis could increase the risk of a PE by breaking off pieces of the clot to travel back to your lungs. If the caval filter is in place they will get caught by the filter before they get back to the heart and pumped into the lungs. The main benefit of the thrombolysis would be to decrease the risk for long-term venous insufficiency.

Bottom-Line...If you have not had the pain for more than 2 weeks yet then go find a doc to THROMBOLYSE YOU.

A VASCULAR/CARDIOVASCULAR (not Cardiac) SURGEON has special expertise in this area...An interventional radiologist should also be able to perform this procedure. You could obviously also go back to the doctor who is giving you the coumadin and see if he is willing to refer you for this so long as you do not mention that you got the idea from the internet, or worse yet, a message board. Doctors Hate that.

Good luck

The pain began over a month ago now. It was at least 3 weeks before i went to the doc, as i thought it was just a typical strain or pull as i often get from training strongman.

I have been on lovenox and coumadin for the past 5 days. My coumadin levels are at 2.3. Since starting the blood thinners the pain and swelling in my calf is almost completely gone.

[MaxC]

The pain began over a month ago now. It was at least 3 weeks before i went to the doc, as i thought it was just a typical strain or pull as i often get from training strongman.

I have been on lovenox and coumadin for the past 5 days. My coumadin levels are at 2.3. Since starting the blood thinners the pain and swelling in my calf is almost completely gone.

Glad to hear about the decrease in pain. Pain can be tricky, sometimes. Did it feel like a deep ache? sometimes it can feel like a deep ache and that can resemble the feel of a pulled muscle. Tricky. Sorry to hear it disguised itself from you. If you had gone to the doc within two weeks he definately would have sent you for thrombolysis. And even within a month alot of docs will do thrombolysis in a young person to prevent the risk of chronic venous insufficiency. Some might even do it up to two months.

However, if it has been over a month then the benefit of doing Thrombolysis is not as clear, and I think we can certainly understand why your doc didn't do it (that is, because the plaque has become adherent to the vessel wall). You could still consider asking your doc about whether he believes thrombolysis will at this point decrease the risk of long-term venous insufficiency at all, and if he says no you could follow-up by requesting politely if he would still be willing to refer you to one of his collegues anyway who specializes in this area for you to consult the specialist about it just to help put your mind at ease to know you have looked into everything that could be of possible benefit.

At this point training WILL NOT INCREASE your chances of a PE because after two weeks the PLAQUE BECOMES ADHERENT, (or stuck) to the wall of the vein, and by four weeks it becomes strongly adherent. Seems a bit counter-intuitive that you can train normally. There are no official guidelines on how long one must wait but it is generally accepted that 2 weeks to become adherent, and then 1 month to become strongly adherent and therefore permit complete return to normal levels of activity. You should have laid off for the first 10-14 days post-incident. Which I am not sure whether you did or not. That was your period of greatest risk for developing a PE. At this point the Blood thinners are doing their job.

You may experience what is called post-thrombotic syndrome which is pain and swelling periodically for weeks or months after the clot. But this should not discourage you from activity. Being sedentary is bad for DVT.

If you need more reassurance then you can use google scholar or google itself, to investigate how long after a DVT can thrombolysis be used to prevent chronic venous insufficiency, and how long after a DVT does the plaque become adherent to the wall. If using regular google though obviously be sure to evaluate the validity of the source and be sure the facts check out with other sources. Just don't tell your doctor that you got all your information off the internet. They Hate That.

Good job for taking proper precautions once you developed health issue and seeking out information. I'm sure that your doc can tell you more, and now you might be equipped to have a more well-informed conversation with him.

[Matt Dawson]

Glad to hear about the decrease in pain. Pain can be tricky, sometimes. Did it feel like a deep ache? sometimes it can feel like a deep ache and that can resemble the feel of a pulled muscle. Tricky. Sorry to hear it disguised itself from you. If you had gone to the doc within two weeks he definately would have sent you for thrombolysis. And even within a month alot of docs will do thrombolysis in a young person to prevent the risk of chronic venous insufficiency. Some might even do it up to two months.

However, if it has been over a month then the benefit of doing Thrombolysis is not as clear, and I think we can certainly understand why your doc didn't do it (that is, because the plaque has become adherent to the vessel wall). You could still consider asking your doc about whether he believes thrombolysis will at this point decrease the risk of long-term venous insufficiency at all, and if he says no you could follow-up by requesting politely if he would still be willing to refer you to one of his collegues anyway who specializes in this area for you to consult the specialist about it just to help put your mind at ease to know you have looked into everything that could be of possible benefit.

At this point training WILL NOT INCREASE your chances of a PE because after two weeks the PLAQUE BECOMES ADHERENT, (or stuck) to the wall of the vein, and by four weeks it becomes strongly adherent. Seems a bit counter-intuitive that you can train normally. There are no official guidelines on how long one must wait but it is generally accepted that 2 weeks to become adherent, and then 1 month to become strongly adherent and therefore permit complete return to normal levels of activity. You should have laid off for the first 10-14 days post-incident. Which I am not sure whether you did or not. That was your period of greatest risk for developing a PE. At this point the Blood thinners are doing their job.

You may experience what is called post-thrombotic syndrome which is pain and swelling periodically for weeks or months after the clot. But this should not discourage you from activity. Being sedentary is bad for DVT.

If you need more reassurance then you can use google scholar or google itself, to investigate how long after a DVT can thrombolysis be used to prevent chronic venous insufficiency, and how long after a DVT does the plaque become adherent to the wall. If using regular google though obviously be sure to evaluate the validity of the source and be sure the facts check out with other sources. Just don't tell your doctor that you got all your information off the internet. They Hate That.

Good job for taking proper precautions once you developed health issue and seeking out information. I'm sure that your doc can tell you more, and now you might be equipped to have a more well-informed conversation with him.

Thank you MaxC, you have cleared up a lot of issues for me. My doc told me these things, he just didn't really explain why. I take it you are an MD yourself?

[MaxC]

Thank you MaxC, you have cleared up a lot of issues for me. My doc told me these things, he just didn't really explain why. I take it you are an MD yourself?

You are welcome. Its difficult to get everything cleared up in one visit to the doctor's office, no matter how good the doc is. It sounds like you felt as though you didn't get enough of an explanation as to why you should execute the prescribed course of action and that was not only frustrating to you but also made it difficult to actually know what to do and follow-through since you could not be certain that the doctor's advice fully took into account knowledge and understanding of athlete-specific issues that often exist and might have been relevant. I have often felt like that after leaving the doc doctor's office. I am really glad that I was able to be of help.

I am still a medical student. I am studying for my board exam so I've got alot of general medical knowledge swirling around right now. Plus, my family has some physicians so I was able to talk to them about your problem. It actually became an opportunity for me to learn.

I always wanted to go to school to help athletes so I am really glad I could help.

Good luck.

[ela88]

hi guys. i have a question. my friend is a powerlifter and has been diagnosed with thrombosis just above his ankle a few days ago. the doctors in our country are ignorent to weight lifters and powerlifters, perhaps because they know little about sports medicine.. their first diagnosis was a moscito bite, i really have nothing to add to that.. third time we went to a hospital, doctor only told him you have thrombosis, you should rest and not do sports anymore. well that is not an option for him. he has done some great progress and refuses to quit powerlifting. do you have any advice to his further training? i was so happy to find this post from you guys, obviously not happy with your conditon, but relieved to find some similar experiences, no one here wants to help or share theirs. he is going to a ultrasound of blood vessels today. i presume he should not be using aas during his treatment, do you know how it goes afterwords? thanks