Muscular Development Forums - Powered by vBulletin

Page 10 of 74 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415161718192060 ... LastLast
Results 154 to 170 of 1256

Thread: glucose disposal agents

  1. #154
    Iron Addict Geminon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    6,767

    Default

    Tipsta:

    I found it. The Aug 2007 issue of MD. The Supplement Performance section on Post workout muscle anabolism by our board own Anssi Mannien. On page 210 he talks about PWO high-gi carbs. According to the research papers he quotes there really isnt any fat gain during this window even when there is high insulin from carbs.

    Now your GDA protocol may be useful at other times when insulin could be spiked from carbs during the day. But that peroid right after working out seems to be the 1 time you can "get away" without needing it.

    I know its one articles put he does cite his sources and its honestly one of the most interesting/useful articles Ive read since I subscribed a few months ago to this mag (way better and in-depth than what I read in Muscle & Fitness about the same subject).

    If somebody needs me to post that section to read I see if I can just let me know. I may be able to scan it.

  2. #155
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Myers Florida
    Posts
    5,943

    Default

    [quote=plato23;276132]Ok sorry for misquoting you.

    So if high GI meals are accompanied by GDA's, why not just replace the high GI carbs with low GI carbs?

    Sorry if that sounds ignorant I just don't get it.[/quot

    High GI Carbs Are like a SLEDGEHAMMER and Low GI carbs are like a TACK HAMMER. Using High GI carbs with GDA'S Give me an amazing ability to take the insulin threshold to its max point before entering the fat cell.
    Cosmetically I could never achieve such a supersaturated state using just low GI carbs. It doesnt take the blood sugar up high enough for me. Besides with or without GDA'S you should try practicing a high GI low GI every other meal protocol, Using a high GI carb following training but not using any food that will take your blood sugar WAY past the point of entering the muscle cell.

    Ask anyone on this board who enjoys disagreeing with me , how high does their blood sugar go up after there PWO meal and how high is too high. I guarantee not one person can tell you. However they will ALL tell you to send it through the roof. Doesnt sound as scientific to me as my approach does. Does it?

    Doesnt this sound a little more sensible.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  3. #156
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Myers Florida
    Posts
    5,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnvil View Post
    Tipsta:

    I found it. The Aug 2007 issue of MD. The Supplement Performance section on Post workout muscle anabolism by our board own Anssi Mannien. On page 210 he talks about PWO high-gi carbs. According to the research papers he quotes there really isnt any fat gain during this window even when there is high insulin from carbs.

    Now your GDA protocol may be useful at other times when insulin could be spiked from carbs during the day. But that peroid right after working out seems to be the 1 time you can "get away" without needing it.

    I know its one articles put he does cite his sources and its honestly one of the most interesting/useful articles Ive read since I subscribed a few months ago to this mag (way better and in-depth than what I read in Muscle & Fitness about the same subject).

    If somebody needs me to post that section to read I see if I can just let me know. I may be able to scan it.
    How high does it say to spike it? Doesnt say does it? Didnt think so. : )

    I'm not saying not to use HIGH GI carbs PWO . What I am saying there is a threshold that no matter how depleted a muscle cell is, will NOT enter the muscle cell. It takes 2 to 3 days for a person who is already contest dieting to deplete his carbs. What makes anyone think a single 2 hour workout could ever deplete any substantial amount of carbs and if it does then your diet is OFF and thats the first thing you would need to address before GI carbs.
    Last edited by Tipsta; September 5th, 2007 at 03:05 PM.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  4. #157
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Myers Florida
    Posts
    5,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deserusan View Post
    First off, I don't take GDA's regularly as I'm not insulin resistant like someone with diabetes.

    Please, post something which is not based on your subjective experience and that doesn't require CAPS to get your point across. I've posted plenty of research which has essentially proven my point and you have to offer anything but heresay. I'm still waiting..............
    Fair enough! Show me a scientific study that following a single workout the muscle cell can accept the amount of insulin released above 300


    This is something that has yet to be explored and you know it!
    Dan Duchaine advocated the use of a glucometer. This shit Is old hack to me but this PWO craze started with that dam book. Nutrient Timing.

    Superhumanradio.com did a great show on the use of glucose monitoring and insulin control. Its a MUST listen to
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  5. #158
    Spotter DDD619's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    187

    Default

    Tipsta what is your recommendation on GDA's with meals? And what is the best GDA with the meals do you believe is superior?

  6. #159
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Myers Florida
    Posts
    5,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD619 View Post
    Tipsta what is your recommendation on GDA's with meals? And what is the best GDA with the meals do you believe is superior?

    Read the thread.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  7. #160
    Team Gaspari Deserusan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,212
    Gender
    Male

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsta View Post
    Fair enough! Show me a scientific study that following a single workout the muscle cell can accept the amount of insulin released above 300


    This is something that has yet to be explored and you know it!
    Dan Duchaine advocated the use of a glucometer. This shit Is old hack to me but this PWO craze started with that dam book. Nutrient Timing.

    Superhumanradio.com did a great show on the use of glucose monitoring and insulin control. Its a MUST listen to
    I haved the utmost respect for Duchaine and his theories. However, natural bodybuilders without insulin resistance issues have no need for using a glucometer. Now to bodybuilders using slin, etc I can see the point which is why Duchaine advocated it.
    Heretic


  8. #161
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Myers Florida
    Posts
    5,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deserusan View Post
    I haved the utmost respect for Duchaine and his theories. However, natural bodybuilders without insulin resistance issues have no need for using a glucometer. Now to bodybuilders using slin, etc I can see the point which is why Duchaine advocated it.
    You obviously have no direct experience with Dan. Dan advocated a glucometer to monitor blood glucose levels. Period! Mainly when using a keto diet to monitor blood to go into keto and thats where he was leaps and bounds ahead of everyone, even today with GDA's.

    So you found a study showing a natural bodybuilder can take blood sugar above 300 and still enter the muscle cell. How can you say ANY bodybuilder natural or unatural would not benefit from blood glucose monitoring. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds to me that not knowing where the hell your blood sugar is has no benefit to knowing exactly whats going on.
    Ever think that maybe you could figure something out that nobody has bothered to. I have.
    You are only in disagreement because you have no knowledge of this topic

    Like I said this is an untapped field that very few are educated on and you know it.

    Funny thing is with me, the moment I was educated on blood sugar and insulin. I thought it to be absurd to not want to learn how certain levels of insulin affected the cosmetics. Since thats all I care about. Maybe thats the issue . All I care about is cosmetics.
    Last edited by Tipsta; September 5th, 2007 at 07:21 PM.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  9. #162

    Default

    vomitting psycho babble....

    Rick

  10. #163
    Iron Addict Geminon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    6,767

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsta View Post
    You obviously have no direct experience with Dan. Dan advocated a glucometer to monitor blood glucose levels. Period! Mainly when using a keto diet to monitor blood to go into keto and thats where he was leaps and bounds ahead of everyone, even today with GDA's.

    So you found a study showing a natural bodybuilder can take blood sugar above 300 and still enter the muscle cell. How can you say ANY bodybuilder natural or unatural would not benefit from blood glucose monitoring. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds to me that not knowing where the hell your blood sugar is has no benefit to knowing exactly whats going on.
    Ever think that maybe you could figure something out that nobody has bothered to. I have.
    You are only in disagreement because you have no knowledge of this topic

    Like I said this is an untapped field that very few are educated on and you know it.

    Funny thing is with me, the moment I was educated on blood sugar and insulin. I thought it to be absurd to not want to learn how certain levels of insulin affected the cosmetics. Since thats all I care about. Maybe thats the issue . All I care about is cosmetics.
    hmm I dont see it in this thread? Maybe I'm blind? Which study?

  11. #164
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Myers Florida
    Posts
    5,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnvil View Post
    hmm I dont see it in this thread? Maybe I'm blind? Which study?


    There is none. Thats my point.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  12. #165
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Myers Florida
    Posts
    5,943

    Default

    Whats wrong with you people? Someone is trying to open your eyes to a topic that is the SO CALLED CRAZE. PWO sugar spike. Its like you just got your ass kicked and I'm reaching out to help you up and you push my hand away. Take my hand I'm trying to help you up! I've never seen such absurd stubborness. If someone can tell me one benefit to knowing absolutely nothing about your blood glucose levels, I'm listening. If nobody could tell me then this is the last time I care to discuss GDA's or the use of a glucometer. Its a dam gas guage for the body. All I can say is. SAD!
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  13. #166

    Default

    How much Vanadyl and chromium are you consuming for the total day?

    These are cheap supplements and if they do indeed work for you then I do not see why you would not use them. I remember that Dan Duchaine used to say that Vanadyl was somewhat Drug Like in Body Opus.

    Duchaine was the MAN............

  14. #167
    Iron Addict Geminon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    6,767

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsta View Post
    Whats wrong with you people? Someone is trying to open your eyes to a topic that is the SO CALLED CRAZE. PWO sugar spike. Its like you just got your ass kicked and I'm reaching out to help you up and you push my hand away. Take my hand I'm trying to help you up! I've never seen such absurd stubborness. If someone can tell me one benefit to knowing absolutely nothing about your blood glucose levels, I'm listening. If nobody could tell me then this is the last time I care to discuss GDA's or the use of a glucometer. Its a dam gas guage for the body. All I can say is. SAD!
    Tipsta:

    I do think its a good idea as you suggested. In fact, 1 of my next steps after my order of those 2 supplements was to grab a meter just for the heck of it. I think I saw one at CVS for like $20. Unless I need to ask my doctor to write a script for a fancy one even though I'm not diabetic (runs deeply in my family all my grandparents had it expect 1). The idea to trace blood sugar level while on a ketogentic diet is a extremely good idea because me I dunno if everybody's response to food is the same always. Some people say low carb = < 100 G / day some day < 50 G day. Either way the idea is keep the blood sugar levels as low as possible.

    I'm still exploring the whole idea of HIGH GI INDEX carbs PWO. Im not taking any sides yet I think both are extremely helpful.

    Assni's article does point to too interesting studies though 1 by Krzentowksi people still after 100 grams of glucose pwo still had significantly elevated fat burning and decreased carb burning compared to placebo. The other is by Folch who found lipogensis is completely stopped pwo for a time even after a large carb load. Man 40G of Dextrose I was having sugar crash naps how the hell those people took 100 at 1 sitting is amazing lol

    I think we can ALL agree chronic high insulin levels are bad but the question is are they bad PWO many say NO.

    What is interesting is that these studies address fat burn pwo with high gi carbs BUT they dont talk about muscle cell uptake or protein synthesis under hyperinsulinemia pwo. Thats where you may have a point at.......

  15. #168

    Default

    Question time...

    You said that 45ish grams of carbs post workout are a good amount?

    So what are your total carb #'s daily when dieting for a show?

    Also, you take a high GI carb before bed? How come?

  16. #169
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Ft. Myers Florida
    Posts
    5,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnvil View Post
    Tipsta:

    I do think its a good idea as you suggested. In fact, 1 of my next steps after my order of those 2 supplements was to grab a meter just for the heck of it. I think I saw one at CVS for like $20. Unless I need to ask my doctor to write a script for a fancy one even though I'm not diabetic (runs deeply in my family all my grandparents had it expect 1). The idea to trace blood sugar level while on a ketogentic diet is a extremely good idea because me I dunno if everybody's response to food is the same always. Some people say low carb = < 100 G / day some day < 50 G day. Either way the idea is keep the blood sugar levels as low as possible.

    I'm still exploring the whole idea of HIGH GI INDEX carbs PWO. Im not taking any sides yet I think both are extremely helpful.

    Assni's article does point to too interesting studies though 1 by Krzentowksi people still after 100 grams of glucose pwo still had significantly elevated fat burning and decreased carb burning compared to placebo. The other is by Folch who found lipogensis is completely stopped pwo for a time even after a large carb load. Man 40G of Dextrose I was having sugar crash naps how the hell those people took 100 at 1 sitting is amazing lol

    I think we can ALL agree chronic high insulin levels are bad but the question is are they bad PWO many say NO.

    What is interesting is that these studies address fat burn pwo with high gi carbs BUT they dont talk about muscle cell uptake or protein synthesis under hyperinsulinemia pwo. Thats where you may have a point at.......

    Thats my point. Everybody responds differently to sugars and yes, I agree using a glucometer and trying to understand blood sugar levels is not for the newbie. It is definitely something a more educated person or advanced athlete should look into. Forget your studies for a minute. If you see that going over glucose readings of 200 cause you to look watery from the insulin spikes, as I do, and going no higher than 180 keeps you dry then dont you see the benefit in being able to dial your physique in. To say there is no benefit is absurd.
    Again, I'm not saying that high blood glucose levels are not needed to stimulate insulin production following a workout. My question is HOW HIGH IS TOO HIGH?

    For me POP TARTS just dont cut it.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  17. #170

    Default

    Lot's of great information in this thread. Thanks.

    Tipsta, you sound like you'd be a lot of fun at parties

Page 10 of 74 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415161718192060 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •