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Thread: glucose disposal agents

  1. #86
    Dedicated Noob Fizzéire's Avatar
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    you can still get 'pump up' on a few websites. but the new version is really a completely different product which in my opinion is bunch of crap, AAKG has little science behind it and i have personally seen no benefits to including it in my supp program
    hearing so much about 5tetra though, sounds like a really ice niche product to add into any supp prog

    tipsta;
    i know its not an ideal formulation but its so freakin hard to get hold of chrom polynicotinate as opposed to picolinate (the toxic form). also although its not RALA good old fasioned ALA is still not bad dispite reduced bioavailability and stability

    bottom line; is it worth taking or should i look elsewhere?

  2. #87
    Iron Addict Geminon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizzéire View Post
    tipsta;
    i know its not an ideal formulation but its so freakin hard to get hold of chrom polynicotinate as opposed to picolinate (the toxic form). also although its not RALA good old fasioned ALA is still not bad dispite reduced bioavailability and stability

    bottom line; is it worth taking or should i look elsewhere?

    www.vitacost.com has the a generic NSI brand which imma buy soon.
    A ton of websites have it. Easy to find.
    Last edited by Geminon; September 3rd, 2007 at 06:06 PM.

  3. #88
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnvil View Post
    Tipsta:

    This is great info on GDA. Should be a sticky somewhere or an article *hint hint MD science writers*. Anyways, I should this thread to a BB/researcher friend of mine. His questions were mainly in the length of usage. I said Id ask you for him.

    #1 Basically, you only tested your blood sugar for 2 weeks? Does this protocol need to be cycled? His thing was 2 weeks isn't long enough to test effectiveness.

    I personally dont think this is somewhere where the body really could/will "adapt" to what your doing like introducing extra Creatine or Testosterone. But I could be wrong here.

    #2 My own question is you say you take our GDA supps with all meals expect meal 5. Is that your post-workout meal or shake or something?
    Can you elaborate on why not that meal.

    Two weeks isnt long enough????!!!! Is your friend insane???!!! The testing was to see the blood sugar changes with and without GDA's. One day was enough to tell me what worked and what didnt. Two weeks was with any other foods I could think of.

    Length of usage?? I'm confused. Been using them for over 10 yrs straight.

    I take 4 a day meal 1,2,4 and 6
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
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  4. #89

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    This thread just makes me shake my head.

    Rick

  5. #90
    Iron Addict Geminon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natron View Post
    This thread just makes me shake my head.

    Rick

  6. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsta View Post
    NO SUCH THING AS TEST BOOSTERS!!!! Do you really believe you can walk in a health food store and buy a product that will affect your hormones??? WAKE UP!!! Maybe there are some things that are available via on line but to me they are UNDERGROUND STEROIDS!!!!... What dont you understand about LIFETIME STEROID FREE?

    How much lower are your blood sugar #'s with vinegar? You dont know, do you? You are watching too much NATURAL CURE SHIT!!! If you dont use a glucometer then you are driving youre car without a gas guage?
    Cinnamon is effective because its EXTREMELLY HIGH in CHROMIUM!!!
    Could you tell me HOW MANY MCGS are in a teaspoon of cinnamon? I cant either. Get my point!!! Like baking a cake. If it asks for 1 level tsp. then you use a measuring tsp and level it right? EXACT AMOUNTS for any recipe.

    If you are hypo and DONT eat the PROPER amount of carbs with GDA's you will be in a constant hypoclycemic coma!!!
    This makes me shake my head.

    Rick

  7. #92
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natron View Post
    This makes me shake my head.

    Rick

    THEN DONT READ IT!!!!!
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  8. #93

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    I have to once in awhile, it reminds me why I attended school on all those days I didn't want too.

    I particularily liked the "there is no such thing as test boosters" quote. Very nice.

    You should chill at Pubmed for a year or two.

    Rick

  9. #94
    Iron Addict Geminon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natron View Post
    I have to once in awhile, it reminds me why I attended school on all those days I didn't want too.

    I particularily liked the "there is no such thing as test boosters" quote. Very nice.

    You should chill at Pubmed for a year or two.

    Rick
    The TEST BOOSTERS statement Tripsta made is very CORRECT. Pls show me on PUBMED where OTC test boosters (usually Tribulus) is affective in changing lean mass. I can show you several where there was no change. In fact, the ONLY tribulus study I can find with positive results is by a company who sells in 1981 which is VERY widely quoted as dogma. Some even debate does it even affect hormone levels (we do know its a vasodialtor like a poor man's viraga tho)./

    AFAIK, there are no peer reviewed published studies showing effectiveness of prohormones. And ALL of these products claim to have "steroid level" results which is totally NOT true.

    Please post me studies showing OTC test boosters are affective studies.

    Oh and since we are playing on PUBMED check this on what he said about Cinnamon... One possible explanation is that cinnamon contains chromium...
    Last edited by Geminon; September 3rd, 2007 at 10:00 PM.

  10. #95
    Team Gaspari Deserusan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnvil View Post

    Please post me studies showing OTC test boosters are affective studies.
    Willoughby DS, Wilborn C, Taylor L, Campbell W..Eight weeks of aromatase inhibition using the nutritional supplement Novedex XT: effects in young, eugonadal men..Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2007 Feb;17(1):92-108

    Numazawa M, Takahashi M, Nagaoka M, Handa W, Yamashita K. Mass spectrometric analysis of oxygenations in aromatization of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione, a suicide substrate of aromatase, by placental microsomes. Isotope effect and stereochemistry.
    J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2007 Jun 22;

    Deventer K, Van Eenoo P, Mikulcikova P, Van Thuyne W, Delbeke FT.
    Quantitative analysis of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione and metabolites in human urine after the administration of a food supplement by liquid chromatography/ion trap-mass spectrometry.J Chromatogr B Analyt Technol Biomed Life Sci. 2005 Dec 15;828(1-2):21-6. Epub 2005 Oct 6.

    Van Thuyne W, Van Eenoo P, Mikulcikova P, Deventer K, Delbeke FT.
    Detection of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione (6-OXO) and its metabolites in urine by gas chromatography-mass spectrometry in relation to doping analysis.Biomed Chromatogr. 2005 Nov;19(9):689-95.

    Liu Y, Cheng KD, Zhu P, Feng WH, Meng C, Zhu HX, He HX, Ma XJ.[Biotransformation of dehydroepiandrosterone by hairy root cultures of Anisodus tanguticus]Yao Xue Xue Bao. 2004 Jun;39(6):445-8. Chinese.

    Numazawa M, Sugiyama T, Nagaoka M. Aromatization of 19-oxygenated androst-4-ene-3,6,17-triones with human placental microsomes.Biol Pharm Bull. 1998 Mar;21(3):289-92.

    Numazawa M, Mutsumi A, Tachibana M. Mechanism for aromatase inactivation by a suicide substrate, androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione. The 4 beta, 5 beta-epoxy-19-oxo derivative as a reactive electrophile irreversibly binding to the active site.Biochem Pharmacol. 1996 Oct 25;52(8):1253-9.

    Toma Y, Higashiyama T, Yarborough C, Osawa Y. Diverse functions of aromatase: O-deethylation of 7-ethoxycoumarin.Endocrinology. 1996 Sep;137(9):3791-6.

    Numazawa M, Mutsumi A, Tachibana M, Nagaoka M. Biochemical studies of estr-4-ene-3,6,17-trione and 5 alpha-androstan-17-ones with or without a carbonyl function at C-3 and/or C-6 as aromatase inhibitors.Biol Pharm Bull. 1995 Apr;18(4):555-8.

    Numazawa M, Tachibana M.A- or B-ring-substituted derivatives of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione as aromatase inhibitors. Structure-activity relationships.
    Steroids. 1994 Oct;59(10):579-85.

    Numazawa M, Midzuhashi K, Nagaoka M. Metabolic aspects of the 1 beta-proton and the 19-methyl group of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione during aromatization by placental microsomes and inactivation of aromatase.Biochem Pharmacol. 1994 Feb 11;47(4):717-26.

    Numazawa M, Oshibe M, Matsuzaki H. 1,4-addition reaction with thiols and conformational analysis with PM3 molecular orbital calculations of 19-oxygenated androst-4-ene-3,6,17-triones.Steroids. 1993 Sep;58(9):423-8.

    Numazawa M, Mutsumi A, Asano N, Ito Y. A time-dependent inactivation of aromatase by 19-substituted androst-4-ene-3,6,17-triones.Steroids. 1993 Jan;58(1):40-6.

    Numazawa M, Mutsumi A, Hoshi K, Kigawa H, Oshibe M.A time-dependent inactivation of aromatase by 19-oxygenated androst-4-ene-3,6,17-triones.J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1991 Dec;39(6):959-66.

    Meigs RA. The constitutive 7-ethoxycoumarin 0-deethylase of human placental microsomes: relationship to the intermediary steps in steroid aromatization.Life Sci. 1990;46(5):321-7.

    Nosenko ND, Reznikov AG. Effect of steroid aromatase inhibitors on the catecholamine content of the hypothalamus of neonatally androgenized rats]
    Biull Eksp Biol Med. 1987 May;103(5):546-8..

    Owen RW, Bilton RF. The biotransformation of hyodeoxycholic acid by Pseudomonas sp. NCIB 10590 under anaerobic conditions.J Steroid Biochem. 1983 Sep;19(3):1355-62.

    Covey DF, Hood WF. A new hypothesis based on suicide substrate inhibitor studies for the mechanism of action of aromatase.Cancer Res. 1982 Aug;42(8 Suppl):3327s-3333s.

    Covey DF, Hood WF.Enzyme-generated intermediates derived from 4-androstene-3,6,17-trione and 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione cause a time-dependent decrease in human placental aromatase activity.
    Endocrinology. 1981 Apr;108(4):1597-9.

    Booth JE. Effects of the aromatization inhibitor androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione on sexual differentiation induced by testosterone in the neonatally castrated rat.J Endocrinol. 1978 Oct;79(1):69-76.

    Shinriki N, Nambara T. [Analytical chemical studies on steroids. XLV. Polarographic behaviors of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione.
    Yakugaku Zasshi. 1971 Jun;91(6):611-7. Japanese.


    www.pubmed.com is free

    You guys really are funny. If I start typing my posts IN ALL CAPS AND FILL THEM FULL OF SUBJECTIVE CRAP IN THE FACE OF CLINICAL SCIENCE WILL YOU THEN BELIEVE ANYTHING I'M SAYING?

    EVER HEARD OF PLACEBO? CHROMIUM AND VANADYL ARE CRAP!
    Heretic


  11. #96
    Iron Addict Geminon's Avatar
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    I kinda knew that was coming cuz I did see some stuff on anti-E's like 6-oxo but I was talking more like HERB test boosters that get talked about so much chiefly Tribulus (!), wild oats, horny goat weed etc. Maybe we are all caught in a game of semantics At least for me.

    Anyways you say placebo Deserusan how can you explain Tripista's experiences with the blood meter using those 2 supplements?

  12. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnvil View Post
    I kinda knew that was coming cuz I did see some stuff on anti-E's like 6-oxo but I was talking more like HERB test boosters that get talked about so much chiefly Tribulus (!), wild oats, horny goat weed etc. Maybe we are all caught in a game of semantics At least for me.

    Anyways you say placebo Deserusan how can you explain Tripista's experiences with the blood meter using those 2 supplements?


    i would have to agree. i havent used a glucometer yet but i can see a difference already just playing with doses and certain meals. ive used the same foods tipsta was doing as well with his carb sources at different meals and just like he said after a few of those carb meals in a row without the gda's my waistline was getting waterlogged and my abs were blurry but sure enough as i brought them back in i was looking leaner and my muscles were significantly fuller. i cant explain the science but i know it wasnt placebo.

  13. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by homerj.simpson View Post
    i would have to agree. i havent used a glucometer yet but i can see a difference already just playing with doses and certain meals. ive used the same foods tipsta was doing as well with his carb sources at different meals and just like he said after a few of those carb meals in a row without the gda's my waistline was getting waterlogged and my abs were blurry but sure enough as i brought them back in i was looking leaner and my muscles were significantly fuller. i cant explain the science but i know it wasnt placebo.
    Same effect here.There is a ton of studies showing that it is a remarkable insulin enhancer for type 2 diabetics.It being cinnamon's chromium

  14. #99
    Team Gaspari Deserusan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnvil View Post
    Anyways you say placebo Deserusan how can you explain Tripista's experiences with the blood meter using those 2 supplements?
    Who knows. Talk is cheap compared to a wealth of research.

    Quote Originally Posted by topgunner View Post
    Same effect here.There is a ton of studies showing that it is a remarkable insulin enhancer for type 2 diabetics.It being cinnamon's chromium
    Please find me a source that shows cinnamon contains chromium. This should help explain cinnamon's effect as a GDR:

    Swedish researchers from the Department of Medicine at the University Hospital of Lund discovered that adding a cinnamon supplement to in a semisolid, carbohydrate-rich meal reduces after-meal blood sugar responses in healthy subjects. The cause of this reduction could at least partly be explained by delayed gastric emptying rate (GER). According to the scientists ?However, the reduction in the blood glucose concentrations, unexpectedly, was much more noticeable and pronounced in the present study than was the lowering of the GER. Therefore, it should be assumed that the change in GER itself could not be the only reason for the lower blood glucose response after the addition of cinnamon to the meal.?; they added that ?further investigation of the effect of cinnamon on the insulin resistance in patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus is needed.?


    This new study published in the current issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition adds to the growing body of research evidence that water-extracted cinnamon supplements positively effect blood sugar balance, which is especially important considering the growing epidemic of diabetes type 2 and metabolic syndrome.


    In clinical studies, cinnamon has been shown to reduce fasting serum glucose, triglyceride (TG) and total as well as LDL-cholesterol concentrations in patients with type 2 diabetes when it is added to the diet for 40d in doses of 1, 3, or 6g.

    3 The same study found that, after the consumption of cinnamon for 40d, the serum blood sugar and TG levels remained lower, even after a 20-d washout period, which indicated that it is not necessary to consume cinnamon every day.3


    This new study shows that the ingestion of 6g cinnamon reduces postprandial blood glucose concentrations and GER in healthy subjects. However, cinnamon?s effect on the past-meal glucose readings was much more pronounced than could be explained by delayed GER as the rate of gastric emptying acts as a major factor in blood glucose homeostasis in normal subjects by controlling the delivery of carbohydrate to the small intestine. Hence, the theory that cinnamon may act as an insulin-mimetic in the human body can not be discounted.


    In fact, cinnamon has been shown to improve insulin receptor function by activating insulin receptor PI 3-kinase and inhibiting tyrosine phosphates.4 Cinnamon has also been shown to stimulate insulin receptor activity by increasing the concentrations of the phosphorylated intracellular protein IRS-1 and increasing the binding to PI 3-kinase, which leads to enhanced cellular glucose uptake.5 Additionally, in-vivo research found that cinnamon prevents the development of insulin resistance in rats fed a high-fructose diet by enhancing the insulin signaling, possibly via the nitric oxide pathway in skeletal muscle.6


    In conclusion, current research suggests that cinnamon is able to reduce serum glucose, triglyceride, total cholesterol, and LDL cholesterol levels in people with type 2 diabetes and healthy folks as well. Because cinnamon would not contribute to caloric intake, those who have type 2 diabetes or those who have elevated glucose, triglyceride, LDL cholesterol, or total cholesterol levels may benefit from the regular inclusion of cinnamon in their daily diet. In addition, cinnamon may be beneficial for the remainder of the population to prevent and control elevated glucose and blood lipid levels, while functioning as a potent antioxidant possibly preventing atherosclerosis, cancer and diabetes type 2.


    Source: Joanna Hlebowicz, Gassan Darwiche, Ola Bj?rgell and Lars-Olof Alm?r. Effect of cinnamon on postprandial blood glucose, gastric emptying, and satiety in healthy subjects. Am J Clin Nutr (June) 2007; Vol. 85, No. 6: p. 1552-1556,


    Abstract:

    Background: Previous studies of patients with type 2 diabetes showed that cinnamon lowers fasting serum glucose, triacylglycerol, and LDL- and total cholesterol concentrations. Objective: We aimed to study the effect of cinnamon on the rate of gastric emptying, the postprandial blood glucose response, and satiety in healthy subjects.


    Design:

    The gastric emptying rate (GER) was measured by using standardized real-time ultrasonography. Fourteen healthy subjects were assessed by using a crossover trial. The subjects were examined after an 8-h fast if they had normal fasting blood glucose concentrations. GER was calculated as the percentage change in the antral cross-sectional area 15?90 min after ingestion of 300 g rice pudding (GER1) or 300 g rice pudding and 6 g cinnamon (GER2).


    Results: The median value of GER1 was 37%, and that of GER2 was 34.5%. The addition of cinnamon to the rice pudding significantly delayed gastric emptying and lowered the postprandial glucose response (P < 0.05 for both). The reduction in the postprandial blood glucose concentration was much more noticeable and pronounced than was the lowering of the GER. The effect of cinnamon on satiety was not significant. Conclusions: The intake of 6 g cinnamon with rice pudding reduces postprandial blood glucose and delays gastric emptying without affecting satiety. Inclusion of cinnamon in the diet lowers the postprandial glucose response, a change that is at least partially explained by a delayed GER.


    1. Broadhurst CL, Polansky MM, Anderson RA. Insulin-like biological activity of culinary and medical plant aqueous extracts in vitro. J Agric Food Chem 2000; 48: 849?52

    2. Anderson RA, Broadhurst CL, Polansky MM, et al. Isolation and characterization of polyphenol type-A polymers from cinnamon with insulin-like biological activity. J Agric Food Chem 2004; 52: 65?70

    3. Khan A, Safdar M, Khan MMA, Khattak KN, Anderson RA. Cinnamon improves glucose and lipids of people with type 2 diabetes.Diabetes Care 2003; 26: 3215?8

    4 . Imparl-Radosevich J, Deas S, Polansky MM, et al. Regulation of PTP-1 and insulin receptor kinase by fractions from cinnamon: implications for cinnamon regulation of insulin signalling. Horm Res 1998; 50: 177?82

    5 Qin B, Nagasaki M, Ren M, Bajotto G, Oshida Y, Sato S. Cinnamon extract (traditional herb) potentiates in vivo insulin-regulated glucose utilazation via insulin-regulated glucose utilazation via enhancing insulin signalin in rats. Diabetes Res Clin Pract 2003; 62:3:139?48

    6. Qin B, Nagasaki M, Ren M, Bajotto G, Oshida Y, Sato S. Cinnamon extract prevents the insulin resistance induced by a highfructose
    diet. Horm Metab Res 2004; 36: 119?25
    Last edited by Deserusan; September 4th, 2007 at 12:29 AM.
    Heretic


  15. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserusan View Post
    Who knows. Talk is cheap compared to a wealth of research.



    Please find me a source that shows cinnamon contains chromium. This should help explain cinnamon's effect as a GDR:

    I wasnt the one who said that cinnamon had tons of chromium,just that it a great GDA.I will look further into cinnamon now as it appears its working some magic behind the scenes.Thanks for the info......

  16. #101
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserusan View Post
    Willoughby DS, Wilborn C, Taylor L, Campbell W..Eight weeks of aromatase inhibition using the nutritional supplement Novedex XT: effects in young, eugonadal men..Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2007 Feb;17(1):92-108

    Numazawa M, Takahashi M, Nagaoka M, Handa W, Yamashita K. Mass spectrometric analysis of oxygenations in aromatization of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione, a suicide substrate of aromatase, by placental microsomes. Isotope effect and stereochemistry.
    J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2007 Jun 22;

    Deventer K, Van Eenoo P, Mikulcikova P, Van Thuyne W, Delbeke FT.
    Quantitative analysis of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione and metabolites in human urine after the administration of a food supplement by liquid chromatography/ion trap-mass spectrometry.J Chromatogr B Analyt Technol Biomed Life Sci. 2005 Dec 15;828(1-2):21-6. Epub 2005 Oct 6.

    Van Thuyne W, Van Eenoo P, Mikulcikova P, Deventer K, Delbeke FT.
    Detection of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione (6-OXO) and its metabolites in urine by gas chromatography-mass spectrometry in relation to doping analysis.Biomed Chromatogr. 2005 Nov;19(9):689-95.

    Liu Y, Cheng KD, Zhu P, Feng WH, Meng C, Zhu HX, He HX, Ma XJ.[Biotransformation of dehydroepiandrosterone by hairy root cultures of Anisodus tanguticus]Yao Xue Xue Bao. 2004 Jun;39(6):445-8. Chinese.

    Numazawa M, Sugiyama T, Nagaoka M. Aromatization of 19-oxygenated androst-4-ene-3,6,17-triones with human placental microsomes.Biol Pharm Bull. 1998 Mar;21(3):289-92.

    Numazawa M, Mutsumi A, Tachibana M. Mechanism for aromatase inactivation by a suicide substrate, androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione. The 4 beta, 5 beta-epoxy-19-oxo derivative as a reactive electrophile irreversibly binding to the active site.Biochem Pharmacol. 1996 Oct 25;52(8):1253-9.

    Toma Y, Higashiyama T, Yarborough C, Osawa Y. Diverse functions of aromatase: O-deethylation of 7-ethoxycoumarin.Endocrinology. 1996 Sep;137(9):3791-6.

    Numazawa M, Mutsumi A, Tachibana M, Nagaoka M. Biochemical studies of estr-4-ene-3,6,17-trione and 5 alpha-androstan-17-ones with or without a carbonyl function at C-3 and/or C-6 as aromatase inhibitors.Biol Pharm Bull. 1995 Apr;18(4):555-8.

    Numazawa M, Tachibana M.A- or B-ring-substituted derivatives of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione as aromatase inhibitors. Structure-activity relationships.
    Steroids. 1994 Oct;59(10):579-85.

    Numazawa M, Midzuhashi K, Nagaoka M. Metabolic aspects of the 1 beta-proton and the 19-methyl group of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione during aromatization by placental microsomes and inactivation of aromatase.Biochem Pharmacol. 1994 Feb 11;47(4):717-26.

    Numazawa M, Oshibe M, Matsuzaki H. 1,4-addition reaction with thiols and conformational analysis with PM3 molecular orbital calculations of 19-oxygenated androst-4-ene-3,6,17-triones.Steroids. 1993 Sep;58(9):423-8.

    Numazawa M, Mutsumi A, Asano N, Ito Y. A time-dependent inactivation of aromatase by 19-substituted androst-4-ene-3,6,17-triones.Steroids. 1993 Jan;58(1):40-6.

    Numazawa M, Mutsumi A, Hoshi K, Kigawa H, Oshibe M.A time-dependent inactivation of aromatase by 19-oxygenated androst-4-ene-3,6,17-triones.J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1991 Dec;39(6):959-66.

    Meigs RA. The constitutive 7-ethoxycoumarin 0-deethylase of human placental microsomes: relationship to the intermediary steps in steroid aromatization.Life Sci. 1990;46(5):321-7.

    Nosenko ND, Reznikov AG. Effect of steroid aromatase inhibitors on the catecholamine content of the hypothalamus of neonatally androgenized rats]
    Biull Eksp Biol Med. 1987 May;103(5):546-8..

    Owen RW, Bilton RF. The biotransformation of hyodeoxycholic acid by Pseudomonas sp. NCIB 10590 under anaerobic conditions.J Steroid Biochem. 1983 Sep;19(3):1355-62.

    Covey DF, Hood WF. A new hypothesis based on suicide substrate inhibitor studies for the mechanism of action of aromatase.Cancer Res. 1982 Aug;42(8 Suppl):3327s-3333s.

    Covey DF, Hood WF.Enzyme-generated intermediates derived from 4-androstene-3,6,17-trione and 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione cause a time-dependent decrease in human placental aromatase activity.
    Endocrinology. 1981 Apr;108(4):1597-9.

    Booth JE. Effects of the aromatization inhibitor androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione on sexual differentiation induced by testosterone in the neonatally castrated rat.J Endocrinol. 1978 Oct;79(1):69-76.

    Shinriki N, Nambara T. [Analytical chemical studies on steroids. XLV. Polarographic behaviors of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione.
    Yakugaku Zasshi. 1971 Jun;91(6):611-7. Japanese.

    www.pubmed.com is free

    You guys really are funny. If I start typing my posts IN ALL CAPS AND FILL THEM FULL OF SUBJECTIVE CRAP IN THE FACE OF CLINICAL SCIENCE WILL YOU THEN BELIEVE ANYTHING I'M SAYING?

    EVER HEARD OF PLACEBO? CHROMIUM AND VANADYL ARE CRAP!


    WHAT PART OF DRUG FREE FOR LIFE DONT YOU GET???!!!

    Whether its a prescription drug or not if it has any affect on hormones its a STEROID!!!

    You are right. Chrom and Vanadyl are crap DONT TAKE THEM!!!

    However for shits and giggles follow my protocol and grab a glucometer.....YOULL SHIT!!!

    I have NUMEROUS diabetics stop INSULIN USE!!!

    My last experience was a gentleman waking between 260 and 295 after just three days of 800 mcg chrom 40 mgs vanadyl @ 4 aday his waking blood sugar is consistantly at 130 to 150.

    The funny thing is I help more old people with blood sugar issues than athletes and its because they LISTEN!!
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  17. #102
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homerj.simpson View Post
    i would have to agree. i havent used a glucometer yet but i can see a difference already just playing with doses and certain meals. ive used the same foods tipsta was doing as well with his carb sources at different meals and just like he said after a few of those carb meals in a row without the gda's my waistline was getting waterlogged and my abs were blurry but sure enough as i brought them back in i was looking leaner and my muscles were significantly fuller. i cant explain the science but i know it wasnt placebo.

    The science is that you are now LOWERING the insulin threshold using the same amount of carbs without having to lower the GLYCEMIC LOAD.

    To all those who DOUBT. Try this. Replace all your carb sources with just white potato. I guarantee by mid day you will start to become watery and by night, if you are consuming an adequate amount of carbs, you will be VERY SOFT!!!
    It will take several days to get that water off you but once you feel you have, do the same thing using 200 mcg CHROM (POLYNICOTINATE) and 10 mgs Vanadyl at first bite and I'll guarantee the dryness you keep will BLOW you away!!!
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

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