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Thread: Re: Dorian.....

  1. #52
    Team MD Peter McGough's Avatar
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    My two cents
    Only in bodybuilding does it seem the perception exists that anyone if they train hard enough and exhibit extreme dedication can become the best in their sport. What is needed is not merely good genetics, but great genetics. Tiger Woods is super dedicated but his golfing prowess is overwhelmingly down to the fact that he was born with a gift to master the intricate techniques of guiding a ball around a golf course. In tennis Roger Federer trains like a Titan but he has won a record 17 Grand Slam titles because fate bequeathed him the ability to attain world beating racket skills. Same with bodybuilding. To be a champion you need those great genetics. Being born with narrow clavicles, wide hips, short legs, a long trunk and short muscle insertions is not a resume destined to disrupt Phil Heath’s sleeping habits. So for starters to make it at the top level you must have a good skeletal structure.
    In addition what is then needed is a superior ability to respond to progressive resistance training and accumulate muscle mass. Kerry Kayes, British Masters champion, past promoter of the English Grand Prix and contest prep advisor illustrates that latter point very well: “Imagine that a normal person is born with two bricklayers inside him which help to build muscle. And imagine that a future Mr. Olympia is born with seven bricklayers inside him. The normal person may take a load of gear and double his muscle building ability and end up with four bricklayers, which still isn’t as many as Mr. Olympia beforr he starts the gear.” Following on from that rationale it’s a personal contention that it is those less genetically gifted who take the most drugs: But that’s an argument for another time.

  2. #53
    Iron Addict farrellzach's Avatar
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    Why are people saying that anybody can become the best in the sport? Nobody ever said that.

    Simply said the size is possible. End of story. To say its not is ridiculous.
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  3. #54
    Amateur Threat Guy Hungwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fantom View Post
    Remember back in the early to mid nineties GH was no where near available as it is today so doing such insane amounts would prove to be very difficult and extremely expensive.

    In previous converstations he did tell me he used 16ius everyother day in his pre contest cycles so that is more believable and he has no reason to bullsh*t me.
    The gh was also real back then too if they got it ie via blackmarket from a real GMp pharmacy, not that stuff that comes from china.

    I remember reading that when you took real pharmacy steroids and gh there is no need for the crazy doses you see today because you are getting a real 500mg in every shot, a real 2 iu in every gh shot. Not saying whomever makes black market stuff is faking it, just saying that the dilution of product perml in every shot plus the quality in a real europen/north american pharmaceutical is 100% on target whereas the chinese are not exactly known for great quality control in any product they produce period because they are major corner cutters and dont give a fuck or play by the same rules. That goes for PED's , food, drugs, cars tv's, steel. toys etc

  4. #55
    Iron Addict FLIP's Avatar
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    It cracks me up when people say GH was so hard to get in the early nineties... My uncle was going to law school down in UC Irvine 91-92 and was taking GH. He didn't even compete. He said it was easy to get anything back in the late 80's early 90's

  5. #56
    Iron Addict hulk7280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farrellzach View Post
    Why are people saying that anybody can become the best in the sport? Nobody ever said that.

    Simply said the size is possible. End of story. To say its not is ridiculous.
    If your theory is true, then anyone would be able to bench press a 1000 lbs, just eat more and take more gear...

    People have genetic potential for gaining size, strength, speed, etc., so not everyone can be 250 lbs and 10% bodyfat.

  6. #57
    Iron Addict farrellzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulk7280 View Post
    If your theory is true, then anyone would be able to bench press a 1000 lbs, just eat more and take more gear...

    People have genetic potential for gaining size, strength, speed, etc., so not everyone can be 250 lbs and 10% bodyfat.
    Nope.

    Size doesn't equal strength.

    Genetic potential means nothing when you're using slin GH and loads of AAS. The only genetics that play a role at that point are drug response and muscle bellies.

    Strength is related to structure as well. A 6'10 dude isn't benching 500 with lanky arms easily. A shorter armed, stockier person will get to that level faster.
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  7. #58
    Beach Body CrazyBaldhead's Avatar
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    farrell is right on point. The degree of inclination to build muscle NATURALLY does NOT matter once gear enters the equation, exactly because gear allows for people to overcome / bypass ALL those previous genetic limitations. What matters then is the actual genetic response to gear, which is a very different kind of beast altogether. Can anyone become huge by taking insane amounts of gear and eating mountains of food? Absolutely. Can they become a top pro? No way.

  8. #59
    MD Staff Ron Harris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter McGough View Post
    My two cents
    Only in bodybuilding does it seem the perception exists that anyone if they train hard enough and exhibit extreme dedication can become the best in their sport. What is needed is not merely good genetics, but great genetics. Tiger Woods is super dedicated but his golfing prowess is overwhelmingly down to the fact that he was born with a gift to master the intricate techniques of guiding a ball around a golf course. In tennis Roger Federer trains like a Titan but he has won a record 17 Grand Slam titles because fate bequeathed him the ability to attain world beating racket skills. Same with bodybuilding. To be a champion you need those great genetics. Being born with narrow clavicles, wide hips, short legs, a long trunk and short muscle insertions is not a resume destined to disrupt Phil Heath’s sleeping habits. So for starters to make it at the top level you must have a good skeletal structure.
    In addition what is then needed is a superior ability to respond to progressive resistance training and accumulate muscle mass. Kerry Kayes, British Masters champion, past promoter of the English Grand Prix and contest prep advisor illustrates that latter point very well: “Imagine that a normal person is born with two bricklayers inside him which help to build muscle. And imagine that a future Mr. Olympia is born with seven bricklayers inside him. The normal person may take a load of gear and double his muscle building ability and end up with four bricklayers, which still isn’t as many as Mr. Olympia beforr he starts the gear.” Following on from that rationale it’s a personal contention that it is those less genetically gifted who take the most drugs: But that’s an argument for another time.
    Spot on.

  9. #60
    MD Staff Ron Harris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyBaldhead View Post
    farrell is right on point. The degree of inclination to build muscle NATURALLY does NOT matter once gear enters the equation, exactly because gear allows for people to overcome / bypass ALL those previous genetic limitations. What matters then is the actual genetic response to gear, which is a very different kind of beast altogether. Can anyone become huge by taking insane amounts of gear and eating mountains of food? Absolutely. Can they become a top pro? No way.
    This is an opinion. I have known people who did take very large doses of drugs and ate vast quantities of food. Only a couple remotely looked to be roughly the same size as pro's. Others only had extreme mass in their guts and their asses. Just saying, not everyone can get huge. If that were the case, these people all would have become huge, and they did not. For the record, this was in L.A. from 1991 to 2000, and I knew a LOT of the amateur competitors and would-be competitors in the area.

  10. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Harris View Post
    This is an opinion. I have known people who did take very large doses of drugs and ate vast quantities of food. Only a couple remotely looked to be roughly the same size as pro's. Others only had extreme mass in their guts and their asses. Just saying, not everyone can get huge. If that were the case, these people all would have become huge, and they did not. For the record, this was in L.A. from 1991 to 2000, and I knew a LOT of the amateur competitors and would-be competitors in the area.
    if the whole just take gear and eat more to get huge argument were true. there would be alot more 5'10" 280 pound monsters walking around i have yet to meet one whose name isnt jay cutler or evan centopani. to say just take more steroids and eat more to continually grow is just stupid. if that where the case there would be alot more ronnie colemans onstage.

  11. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by UriahMcGee View Post
    they would have to use higher doses and slin/gh to make up for the bad genetics most likely but it may be possible if they stay consistent with everything
    LOL no its impossible how many people do do know who are 280 under 10% bf? 50 maybe? in the whole world out of millions who use gear. i think that tells you that getting that big is not for everyone

  12. #63
    Iron Addict farrellzach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongJourney Los View Post
    LOL no its impossible how many people do do know who are 280 under 10% bf? 50 maybe? in the whole world out of millions who use gear. i think that tells you that getting that big is not for everyone
    How many people do you know with average response to drugs that can afford the doses needed for their bodies to get to that level?

    I honestly don't see how you don't understand. Jay doesn't just use test and dbol to sit at 300lbs most of the year. You need many things to get to that.

    You think Nick Trigili blew the fuck up over like 4 months because he responds really really incredibly to just a few mg's of AAS? Or because he got a sponsor and could afford more food, more gh, more slin?

    Nobody said everyone can take 3g's and be 250 at 10%. Some will take 3, 5, 7, etc. Some will use 5iu, 10iu, 15iu of GH.

  13. #64
    Bro Scientist Danny Manslaughter's Avatar
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    The quest for the 'correct dosage protocols' that PRO's use or have used is the equivalent to the search for the "holy grail" or 'Atlantis'. No matter what these guys say there will always be someone screaming "LIAR!" as they endlessly cycle grams of gear to flex their 15" biceps in front of the mirror. That much tren is insane! For me, even when I've used small amounts of the compound I couldn't sleep and felt that people were actively conspiring against me. Sure, some people have no adverse reactions to it... But really? Imagine dosing 600mg or whatever of parabolan a day. You'd be a nutcase! I think it sounds like another ridiculous pro-cycle. Some people just don't like to accept that some people have great genetics. If you don't believe me spend some time in the joint! You'll see some huge cut-up monsters (LITERALLY PRO-LEVEL SIZE) and they aren't running anything.

  14. #65
    Beach Body CrazyBaldhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Manslaughter View Post
    If you don't believe me spend some time in the joint! You'll see some huge cut-up monsters (LITERALLY PRO-LEVEL SIZE) and they aren't running anything.
    Lol, that's the most ridiculous thing I've read all week, props. Pro level size achievable naturally? Damn, it makes you wonder why
    there have been no ex-convicts Mr. Olympias. First of all, anyone who's doing serious time in the joint is either a user or a distributor of a wide range of drugs, including gear of course. Second, are you saying that prison has a weird effect on people that somehow makes them huge? Cause that's pretty fuckin insane. Or are you implying that every single one of those people who have those "ungodly natural muscle-building genes" ends up in prison? Man, you're demented.
    I'm not surprised you went paranoid. The proclivity was definitely there. And you actually ended up blaming your gear for it.

  15. #66
    Bro Scientist Danny Manslaughter's Avatar
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    Most of the people locked up you see that have good builds will never get out nor do I think they would have an interest in the Mr. Olympia competition. People assume that the competitors in the Mr. Olympia have the 'best genetics for bodybuilding' but that's probably not the case. Someone with the best genetics for bodybuilding is likely someone you've never heard of that has no interest in the competitive endeavors of the sport. So the assumption that because there are jacked guys locked up that it would subsequently lead to ex-con Mr. Olympias is erroneous... I'll admit maybe "pro-level size" is an exaggeration but I've seen guys that have never touched a compound that would blow away a slough of national level competitors. And certain prisons do have the perfect circumstances to gaining ungodly amounts of muscle, of course! Think about it... Sleeping for hours of end, working out when you decide, stacking up on cans of tuna from the commissary. I don't blame 'tren' for going paranoid but it certainly exasperated any conditions I already had. I don't find this odd. Of course many people will live by "anabolic steroids do nothing bad!" which is almost as ridiculous as the people who label them as dangerous death inducing substances. A lot of people have had complications from tren, this isn't some isolated experience from myself.

  16. #67
    Bro Scientist lilarnold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulk7280 View Post
    If your theory is true, then anyone would be able to bench press a 1000 lbs, just eat more and take more gear...

    People have genetic potential for gaining size, strength, speed, etc., so not everyone can be 250 lbs and 10% bodyfat.
    His theories on everything have already been proven wrong by father time and loads and loads of anecdotal evidence
    2013 NPC MID-ILLINOIS LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP

  17. #68
    Beast D-NUTZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilarnold View Post
    His theories on everything have already been proven wrong by father time and loads and loads of anecdotal evidence
    Show us.
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