Re: Dorian.....

[Ron Harris]

[QUOTE=Guy Hungwell;3284092]Another thing is going back 15 plus years ago people seemed to enjoy working out and the ones who competed did it for the challenge and personal satisfaction. Drugs were there in varying degree but for the most part this whole so called "in the know" erea has ruined working out in general ad bodybuilding at the grassroots because people are taking godawful amounts from the start just to compete at even the novice and regional level because of what they think xyz pro did or assume they did/do.

I mean you have kids today that dont even know how many calories there are in an average egg using a whack of shit, training half assed(chest/shoulders/arms 3-4 times a week with some leg extenisions partial leg presses hammer pulldowns and rows thrown in here and there) and relying on protein drinks to make up for the shit they eat and the x, horse tranqs, coke, oxys etc they abuse all weekend because they just want to look good at a massive 160lbs on the weekend. Hey if thats a persons goal then go for it but n need to vn use juice for some of the physiques I see in the gym and what guys are using to get it. Then they point at pros today and say, well "well he looks like that because he takes so much more than everyone"

Perhaps, but xyz pro/amateur(the ones who last for years) hasnt missed an in/off season meal very often, actually trains their whole body and uses the squat rack for barbell curls because they can actually curl 135-225 in decent form.
Also most guys on these internet boards the majority love to show off their deadlift prowess in videos yet rarely show off their squat process. Dont get me wrong deads are a hard exercise but squats are many times harder and frnkly most dont do them. I am referring to the younger crowd of teens and twentysomethings here.

My point is all these people who cop out that the other guy uses more are the same ones that done eat right for the goals they have, and they dont do ost of the actual old school growth moves that the biggest guys did in the first place to get that original bulk before going on the gas. Instead they put the drugs first and expect it to do most of the work.[/QUOTE]

Back in the day, drugs really were considered a 'finishing touch.' Meaning, only if your training and nutrition were maximized were they a factor. The really old-school guys didn't even use gear at all in their off-season, only for contest prep. Doses were less than what we see Figure girls using today. But like you say, all the kids today have it ass-backwards - juice your brains out, train like a bitch, and eat like a bird.

[Pitbull9]

Back in the day, drugs really were considered a 'finishing touch.' Meaning, only if your training and nutrition were maximized were they a factor. The really old-school guys didn't even use gear at all in their off-season, only for contest prep. Doses were less than what we see Figure girls using today. But like you say, all the kids today have it ass-backwards - juice your brains out, train like a bitch, and eat like a bird.[/QUOTE]

Its the bullshit internet gen thats needs immediate results. There is no point of juicing like crazy without a better than average physique, and that SHOULD take years to build.

[Ron Harris]

Back in the day, drugs really were considered a 'finishing touch.' Meaning, only if your training and nutrition were maximized were they a factor. The really old-school guys didn't even use gear at all in their off-season, only for contest prep. Doses were less than what we see Figure girls using today. But like you say, all the kids today have it ass-backwards - juice your brains out, train like a bitch, and eat like a bird.

Its the bullshit internet gen thats needs immediate results. There is no point of juicing like crazy without a better than average physique, and that SHOULD take years to build.[/QUOTE]

It's society as a whole that has changed and become more impatient. We want everything and we want it NOW! I call it the 'On Demand Generation.'

[bigmikecox]

.......


Dorian's genetics in terms of size and the ability to put on muscle were not better then any of the mass monsters from Nasser to Dillet but one thing he had above the rest and it was sheer luck that someone like him would have this characteristic, as I do not see it having anything to do with race is the ability to not hold subcutaneous water under the skin.
Even in off-season he was bone dry, it was simply his genetics, of course the drugs enhanced this but give any one else the same thing and they still would not be as "granite-like" as Yates, unbelievable in person, his skin was transparent and you really would have had to have seen this in person with your own eyes to know how much of a difference this made.
The only one else who came close to this skin texture Yates had was Pavol Jablonicky, again even with Pavol you would have had to seen him in real life to know how dry he really was.
Now as far as race and genetics for bodybuilding, it is real hard to tell. Blacks win hands down in upper body, bone structure and shape, Germans and sourounding areas win for sheer mass. Really though, a freak can come out of anywhere anytime. Are British bodybuilders good?, yes, I think they are up there as well.

[D-NUTZ]

.......


Dorian's genetics in terms of size and the ability to put on muscle were not better then any of the mass monsters from Nasser to Dillet but one thing he had above the rest and it was sheer luck that someone like him would have this characteristic, as I do not see it having anything to do with race is the ability to not hold subcutaneous water under the skin.
Even in off-season he was bone dry, it was simply his genetics, of course the drugs enhanced this but give any one else the same thing and they still would not be as "granite-like" as Yates, unbelievable in person, his skin was transparent and you really would have had to have seen this in person with your own eyes to know how much of a difference this made.
The only one else who came close to this skin texture Yates had was Pavol Jablonicky, again even with Pavol you would have had to seen him in real life to know how dry he really was.
Now as far as race and genetics for bodybuilding, it is real hard to tell. Blacks win hands down in upper body, bone structure and shape, Germans and sourounding areas win for sheer mass. Really though, a freak can come out of anywhere anytime. Are British bodybuilders good?, yes, I think they are up there as well.

Kai got lucky as fuck in the lower body.

[victoria,ruby]

He didn't get that way by taking creatine and whey protein

No of course he didn't,he took Glutamine as well lol lol

[Peter McGough]

.......


Dorian's genetics in terms of size and the ability to put on muscle were not better then any of the mass monsters from Nasser to Dillet but one thing he had above the rest and it was sheer luck that someone like him would have this characteristic, as I do not see it having anything to do with race is the ability to not hold subcutaneous water under the skin.
Even in off-season he was bone dry, it was simply his genetics, of course the drugs enhanced this but give any one else the same thing and they still would not be as "granite-like" as Yates, unbelievable in person, his skin was transparent and you really would have had to have seen this in person with your own eyes to know how much of a difference this made.
The only one else who came close to this skin texture Yates had was Pavol Jablonicky, again even with Pavol you would have had to seen him in real life to know how dry he really was.
Now as far as race and genetics for bodybuilding, it is real hard to tell. Blacks win hands down in upper body, bone structure and shape, Germans and sourounding areas win for sheer mass. Really though, a freak can come out of anywhere anytime. Are British bodybuilders good?, yes, I think they are up there as well.

You’re right on the money bigmike. In the flesh his hardness and dryness took on another dimension. You felt if you tapped his skin it would be like tapping granite. At the 1991 Olympia, Bill Reynolds Editor of Flex told me after the pre-judging, “I didn’t see Dorian at the 1990 or 1991 Night of Champions – only saw the photos. He looked good in the shots but now I’ve seen him live he’s just unbelievably hard: photos don’t do him justice.” Mike Matarazzo said the same thing after seeing Dorian in the flesh for the first time.

[TheHitch]

Yeah this is very true. I've been to 2 Arnold's now and those guys and "girls" look cartoonish. Pics/vids really doesn't get it across. It's like watching the NBA on TV and then meeting Dwight Howard in person.

You’re right on the money bigmike. In the flesh his hardness and dryness took on another dimension. You felt if you tapped his skin it would be like tapping granite. At the 1991 Olympia, Bill Reynolds Editor of Flex told me after the pre-judging, “I didn’t see Dorian at the 1990 or 1991 Night of Champions – only saw the photos. He looked good in the shots but now I’ve seen him live he’s just unbelievably hard: photos don’t do him justice.” Mike Matarazzo said the same thing after seeing Dorian in the flesh for the first time.

I remember reading A flex article of your letters to Dorian and speaking of the early days. You were at a show and speaking to another bodybuilder who was talking of retirement and you asked why and he said "because of guys like that" and pointed to young Dorian who was posing to "sweetdreams-techno version"...was that correct? It's a while since I seen it but I remember reading and thinking "who wouldn't want to be known as 'that fuckin guy'?". The young champ!

[intenceman]

You’re right on the money bigmike. In the flesh his hardness and dryness took on another dimension. You felt if you tapped his skin it would be like tapping granite. At the 1991 Olympia, Bill Reynolds Editor of Flex told me after the pre-judging, “I didn’t see Dorian at the 1990 or 1991 Night of Champions – only saw the photos. He looked good in the shots but now I’ve seen him live he’s just unbelievably hard: photos don’t do him justice.” Mike Matarazzo said the same thing after seeing Dorian in the flesh for the first time.

Which leads right back to GENETICS. Unless you believe this limey from Birmingham had a supersecret drug for THAT, too. Which by the way, hasn't been replicated to this day.

[bigmikecox]

I saw Dorian guest pose at a HARD 300lbs. One of the more impressive guys ive seen

[Peter McGough]

I remember reading A flex article of your letters to Dorian and speaking of the early days. You were at a show and speaking to another bodybuilder who was talking of retirement and you asked why and he said "because of guys like that" and pointed to young Dorian who was posing to "sweetdreams-techno version"...was that correct? It's a while since I seen it but I remember reading and thinking "who wouldn't want to be known as 'that fuckin guy'?". The young champ!

The occasion was Dorian's first contest in 1985 -- I had never seen him. Franks Richards had just finished 5th at the Night of The Champions after a 14 year lay off (as a result of an industrial accident that nearly killed him) and he was at the event. I was congratulating Frank who told me he would only do another couple of years. I asked him why? Frank was facing the stage and I had my back to it and as I asked the question I heard the opening riff of that Eurythmics "Sweet Dream". As he answered Frank pointed to the stage and said, "Because of F@#*ers like that!" I turned and there was a granite hard Dorian.

[Peter McGough]

Which leads right back to GENETICS. Unless you believe this limey from Birmingham had a supersecret drug for THAT, too. Which by the way, hasn't been replicated to this day.

Exactly!! When he was competing some quarters believed he had a secret drug or formula that accounted for his amazing look. I used to tell them, Well when he retires he'll make a fortune by marketing it so everyone can look like that. 15 years after he last competed we're still waiting for the secret. Come on Dozzer, get your bloody finger out! Ge

[Ron Harris]

Exactly!! When he was competing some quarters believed he had a secret drug or formula that accounted for his amazing look. I used to tell them, Well when he retires he'll make a fortune by marketing it so everyone can look like that. 15 years after he last competed we're still waiting for the secret. Come on Dozzer, get your bloody finger out! Ge

I lived in LA the whole time Dorian was Mr. Olympia, and even his fellow pro's seemed to think he must have had some secret drugs in Europe that they didn't have access to.

More recently, Dennis Wolf told me that when he was living in Germany, the bb's there thought the AMERICANS must have access to some exotic drugs that they didn't!

[lifepulse]

Kai got lucky as fuck in the lower body.

Not really. Both Kai and Coleman had unbelivable legs, even though they had long legs with short torsos (which usually makes it difficult to develop the legs). But notice what they both did: they both trained legs RIDICULOUSLY hard and heavy, very heavy squatters, both with a pretty darn full range of motion, none of this "ass in the air" butt squatting that we see from Johnnie Jackson.

Watch Ronnie's 800lbs squat video, and despite his hulking 320lbs frame, notice how upright he stays and how deep he drops. Same with Kai-- perfect upright form and technique when he squats. That WILL grow the legs, even if they're long. It's just a lot harder.

-lifepulse

[Pitbull9]

I saw Dorian guest pose at a HARD 300lbs. One of the more impressive guys ive seen

Who was the most impressive BBer you ever saw in person

[FLIP]

For me, Ronnie Coleman in 99 after all the Grand Prix shows. Made an appearance here in Cali. He said he was around 285-290 with striations all over his bis and tris. He was sweating so bad he had two towels, eyes looked blood shot as shit. When he shook my hand man I was like his arm is the size of my leg and the time in actuality it was probably bigger haha!

[D-NUTZ]

Not really. Both Kai and Coleman had unbelivable legs, even though they had long legs with short torsos (which usually makes it difficult to develop the legs). But notice what they both did: they both trained legs RIDICULOUSLY hard and heavy, very heavy squatters, both with a pretty darn full range of motion, none of this "ass in the air" butt squatting that we see from Johnnie Jackson.

Watch Ronnie's 800lbs squat video, and despite his hulking 320lbs frame, notice how upright he stays and how deep he drops. Same with Kai-- perfect upright form and technique when he squats. That WILL grow the legs, even if they're long. It's just a lot harder.

-lifepulse

They still got lucky.

Show me 10 black guys with legs like them....quads/hams/calves.