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Thread: Quran Verse of the Day

  1. #69
    Forum Legend RockyIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sargent View Post
    You (I presume) know more about Xtian theology than me, CELT.

    I do not know.

    I never knew the the NT negates the OT.

    Definitely cherry picking for convenience by many, many, people.

    Celt, please note my comment about the latter chapters negating earlier ones is about Islam - not Xtianity.

    The latter chapter "trumping" is in Islamic theology.

    The problem with cheery picking the Quran is that eacy individual word is the direct word of god (according to Islamic theology).

    There can be no doubt of any word, or any ignoring. The OT and NT are not considered the 'direct word of god.'

    I think this is the root of the problem with Islam.

    You cannot reason with faith. And you damn sure canot reason with someone who believes very word, phrase, order, and sentence was/is the direct word of god.
    OT and NT do not negate each other...sin is sin in both testaments
    I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.
    JESUS THE CHRIST

  2. #70
    Forum Leader: Politics & Religion The Celt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sargent View Post
    You (I presume) know more about Xtian theology than me, CELT.

    I do not know.

    I never knew the the NT negates the OT.

    Definitely cherry picking for convenience by many, many, people.

    Celt, please note my comment about the latter chapters negating earlier ones is about Islam - not Xtianity.

    The latter chapter "trumping" is in Islamic theology.

    The problem with cheery picking the Quran is that eacy individual word is the direct word of god (according to Islamic theology).

    There can be no doubt of any word, or any ignoring. The OT and NT are not considered the 'direct word of god.'

    I think this is the root of the problem with Islam.

    You cannot reason with faith. And you damn sure canot reason with someone who believes very word, phrase, order, and sentence was/is the direct word of god.

    If it is a "New" testament, and all the old laws of Judaism are refuted in the development of the teachings of Christ, thus bringing about an entirely New Religion, doesn't it take away the need for the OT all together?

    If you ask many (most) Christians, they will tell you that the Bible is the irrefutable word of God.

    As for DeadN 's quote that Jesus "fulfilled" the Old Covenant. He did not. The story of Christ fulfilled prophecy in the OT, mainly those given by Isaiah...
    “War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.”
    ― George Orwell

  3. #71
    Forum Leader: Politics & Religion The Celt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyIII View Post
    OT and NT do not negate each other...sin is sin in both testaments

    Who wrote the New testament?
    “War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.”
    ― George Orwell

  4. #72
    Behemoth sargent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyIII View Post
    OT and NT do not negate each other...sin is sin in both testaments
    Thanks Rocky III, for the clarification. I had never heard nor read or "refutation" in Xtianity.

    Celt, you need to do your homework on this, as you made the statement about NT refuting OT.

  5. #73
    Behemoth sargent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Celt View Post
    If it is a "New" testament, and all the old laws of Judaism are refuted in the development of the teachings of Christ, thus bringing about an entirely New Religion, doesn't it take away the need for the OT all together?
    Jesus never brought a new religion. The term christian did not exist in his lifetime.

    If you ask many (most) Christians, they will tell you that the Bible is the irrefutable word of God.
    False. Xtians know that the Bible is a collection of stories and historical stories written by humans.

  6. #74
    Behemoth sargent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Celt View Post
    Who wrote the New testament?
    Many People and there were additions and edits and changes.

    I presume your question is rhetorical? Why?

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    Forum Legend RockyIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Celt View Post
    Who wrote the New testament?
    God
    I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.
    JESUS THE CHRIST

  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyIII View Post
    OT and NT do not negate each other...sin is sin in both testaments
    Yep - God's sins are much more toned down in the new testament. The pendulum swung from needing fear to rule the masses to trying a mix of fear and compassion.

  9. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyIII View Post
    God
    Nope

  10. #78
    Behemoth sargent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyIII View Post
    God
    Yaweh was apparently considered to be one source. Here is an interesting thread:
    --
    The Christian "Old Testament" is the Hebrew Tanakh, a an acronym formed from the titles of its three sections: the Torah (the Law), the Nev'im (the Prophets) and the Ketuvim (the Writings).


    The Torah is the first five books of the Bible (also known to scholars as "the Pentateuch": Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) and has been central to the Jewish faith (in some form) since at least the 7th century BC. Originally assumed to have been authored by Moses, scholars now acknowledge that the Torah is a composite work that has been artfully stitched together - perhaps by a single "editor" - from a wide range of pre-existing sources. This is known as the Documentary Hypothesis and it is one of the most interesting (and controversial) areas of Old Testament study.

    Although many scholars hold different opinions of the exact nature of the material used for the composition of the Torah, most now acknowledge four key sources: the Yawhist (or "J") source, the Elohist (or "E") source, the Priestly (or "P") source and the Deuteronomist (or "D") source (often divided further into "Dtr1" and "Dtr2"). These sources may have once stood as independent texts, but were later merged together into the unified work that we find today. Evidence for the DH can often rely on rather technical analyses of the original Hebrew texts (which are beyond my expertise to relay) but it includes things like the repetition of stories (sometimes with different theological emphases), narrative breaks (see Noah's Ark below), differences in language and terminology employed (such as the name of God - Yahweh in J, Elohim in E, hence the names) and other stylistic / theological discrepancies which are otherwise difficult to explain without assuming multiple authorship.

    I think that the best and most striking example of DH analysis is the one performed by Richard Friedman on the Noah's ark story. At first glance, the story throws up some obvious inconsitencies: in some passages (Gen 7:4,12,27; 8:6 etc.) it is indicated that the flood lasted for 40 days and 40 nights, but in other passages (Gen 7:24; 8:3b,5,13,14 etc.) that it lasted for much longer. Genesis 7:2-3 indicates that 7 pairs of each clean animal and 1 pair of each unclean animal should be taken aboard the ark, but later it is indicated that it is to be only one pair of every kind of animal is to be taken (Gen 7:8-9,15). In Genesis 8:7 Noah releases a raven to "test the waters" so to speak, but in 8:8-12 he is depicted as releasing three doves: what gives?

    Friedman's solution is that the present Biblical account is actually the conflation of two independant flood accounts, one penned by the J Source, the other by the P Source. He demostrates which passages belong to which source in this book, which I have included scans of below. Here, the J source is in green and the P source is in blue:

  11. #79
    Forum Leader: Politics & Religion The Celt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sargent View Post
    Jesus never brought a new religion. The term christian did not exist in his lifetime.



    False. Xtians know that the Bible is a collection of stories and historical stories written by humans.

    Bingo!!!
    “War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.”
    ― George Orwell

  12. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by the celt
    Who wrote the New testament




    Quote Originally Posted by sargent
    Many People and there were additions and edits and changes.

    I presume your question is rhetorical? Why?



    Quote Originally Posted by ROCKYIII
    God


    Its like fishing with a shotgun in a barrel......
    “War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.”
    ― George Orwell

  13. #81

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    Old testament god was like Sonny from "A Bronx Tale".

  14. #82
    Forum Legend RockyIII's Avatar
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    what happened is that people started to follow the Law without truly understanding the heart of God and the true meaning behind the Law. The Pharisees are a clear example, as they were all about following the laws of God yet had no true relationship with God and didnt really understand what the meaning behind those laws were
    I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.
    JESUS THE CHRIST

  15. #83

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    ^Same old bullshit, pretending to know, not understand but know, the mind of people who lived 2000 years ago, and a god, who supposedly is infinite and omnipotent.

  16. #84
    Forum Legend RockyIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lou0178 View Post
    ^Same old bullshit, pretending to know, not understand but know, the mind of people who lived 2000 years ago, and a god, who supposedly is infinite and omnipotent.
    actually the majority of people back 2000 years ago were just like you. Only believed in what they saw, and measured their worth by money, fame, and outward appearance
    I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me.
    JESUS THE CHRIST

  17. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyIII View Post
    actually the majority of people back 2000 years ago were just like you. Only believed in what they saw, and measured their worth by money, fame, and outward appearance
    neither do you know me or what I think....keep assuming though. assume your way through life.....

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