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Thread: First Ride

  1. #1
    Barbarian falpis's Avatar
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    Default First Ride

    So it is about time.
    My friend has finally decided to take a step into the dark side.

    The main plan is to make a test only cycle.

    Based on his studies and also thans to Elf's thread, there's the issue about the latency of action if you use a long ester like enanthate/cypionate so that an oral is usually needed to kick start.
    Since he would like to stay away from orals as long as possible he thought about using testosterone propionate instead of a long ester, so that he could actually feel it working faster, while avoiding the side effects of the orals.

    Plus, ad this is a pretty important point, test prop would cost him about 1/4 of the same dosage of test enanthate.

    The plan is to make a 8-10 week cycle of 400-600 mg test prop.

    Planning to have nolvadex on hand and clomid for post cycle.

    What do you guys think?
    I'd like to have advice about the kind of needles and syringes needed; take into consideration taht he has decent pinning experience (from administering cortisone therapies to relatives) and, most importantly, he's not afraid of pinning often.

    Would you need standard 10 ml syringes or would slin syringes be better? Needle size (considering the bodyfat is about 11%)?

    A little background:
    - this is obviously the first cycle, been training consistently for 8 years (except about 1 year off for some injuries including a herniated disk in the back and a torn labrum that required an operation)
    - diet is on point
    - training is a bit limited because of the aforementioned injuries; trying to stay away from heavy weights and ego lifting but training as hard as possible.

    Any feedback is appreciated.

  2. #2
    Freak of Nature Elf's Avatar
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    Personally, I would do at least a 10 week cycle.

    As far as needles go, I use an 18g needle to draw the oil from the vial and a 23g to pin it into the muscle. I used a 25g for a while, but, in my opinion, they're just too small. You'll want at least a 1 inch needle, maybe 1.5 inches, but nothing less than 1 inch. I know some guys use 5/8 inch needle for Delts, but unless you're stick skinny 1 inches is enough. If you're fat. 1.5 inches is better. As for syringes, pick up some 3cc syringes. They're perfect. The wider the barrel of the syringe, the more difficult it is to push oil through the needle. Http://www.gpzservices.com is from where I purchase my needles and syringes. They're good to go.

    As for PCT, Nolva is enough for a cycle like this. I wouldn't even pick up Clomid. Just get lots of Nolva. It's typically not very expensive. I would recommend some Arimidex, too. Having an AI on hand is very beneficial... I almost learned the hard way.

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    Freak of Nature USEALITTLE's Avatar
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    IMO if the you... i mean the person has never pinned before prop might not be the best to start with due to needing to be pinned 3x + wk. with enth/cyp it's only 2 over the corse of a cycle that will be half the amount of pinz.

    also the way prop works And is 6-8wks at 450mg is stronger then cyp/enth at a higher dose for a lo get time.

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    Barbarian falpis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elf View Post
    Personally, I would do at least a 10 week cycle.

    As far as needles go, I use an 18g needle to draw the oil from the vial and a 23g to pin it into the muscle. I used a 25g for a while, but, in my opinion, they're just too small. You'll want at least a 1 inch needle, maybe 1.5 inches, but nothing less than 1 inch. I know some guys use 5/8 inch needle for Delts, but unless you're stick skinny 1 inches is enough. If you're fat. 1.5 inches is better. As for syringes, pick up some 3cc syringes. They're perfect. The wider the barrel of the syringe, the more difficult it is to push oil through the needle. Http://www.gpzservices.com is from where I purchase my needles and syringes. They're good to go.

    As for PCT, Nolva is enough for a cycle like this. I wouldn't even pick up Clomid. Just get lots of Nolva. It's typically not very expensive. I would recommend some Arimidex, too. Having an AI on hand is very beneficial... I almost learned the hard way.
    thanks for the info on needles.
    The site to purchase syringes isn't an option because he doesn't live in the US and it would be silly to make an international shipment for those. You can get them at shopping mall for little money.

    about the serms/Ai, he hopes he won't need an AI, since he is decently lean, plus he will have nolva (pharma grade) on hand, because I think it is the best alternative, from my studies and forum reviews.
    Clomid will not be used for estrogen combat but for pct, since it has a stronger action in inhibiting the negative feedback on the pituitary.

    Quote Originally Posted by USEALITTLE View Post
    IMO if the you... i mean the person has never pinned before prop might not be the best to start with due to needing to be pinned 3x + wk. with enth/cyp it's only 2 over the corse of a cycle that will be half the amount of pinz.

    also the way prop works And is 6-8wks at 450mg is stronger then cyp/enth at a higher dose for a lo get time.
    About the pinning freqency, he's not afraid of becoming a human pinning cushiom. No way that is gonna hold him back!

    As far as the dosage issue, can yu explain me better what you mean: let's say, fro example, 400 mgs of prop are equivalent to a higher dose of enanthate/cypionate?
    as far as the cycle lenght: it is s common habit to make shorter cycle with prop since it exert his effects faster?

  5. #5
    Barbarian falpis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falpis View Post

    As far as the dosage issue, can yu explain me better what you mean: let's say, fro example, 400 mgs of prop are equivalent to a higher dose of enanthate/cypionate?
    as far as the cycle lenght: it is s common habit to make shorter cycle with prop since it exert his effects faster?
    I mean, did you mean that a certain dosage of prop is equivalent to a higher dosage of enanthate because of the fact the the prop ester is shorter so ther is more actual testosterone...or is there something else??

    my ignorance about your advice about the cycle lenght still remains....

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    Freak of Nature USEALITTLE's Avatar
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    Yes mg/mg prop is i think 7-8 points higher then cyp/enth on the scale. So 450 is more then 500+ mgs of cyp/enth. Also cuz you don't need to wait 3-4wks for it to start to work the need for longer cycles is not needed.

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    Barbarian falpis's Avatar
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    ^ thanks. it looks like prop is a great drug!! much underestimated in favour of the longer esters...

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    Juggernaut Nationals09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falpis View Post
    ^ thanks. it looks like prop is a great drug!! much underestimated in favour of the longer esters...
    The only thing you have to take in to account with different esters (time and release) is the majority of side effects come from one of two places which both originate from the same place which is hormone level swings. When starting the use of testosterone, which primary function is to store nutrients more effectively which helps the conversion of slow burning clean carbs to glycogen quicker and storing into muscle tissue for future use (creating and full an round look) your body will take time to adjust to the swing up in levels. That being said it's easier to regulate an keep sustained with less variables the longer the ester secondly after the third week of say enth or cyp your dosages start stacking on top of one another compounding in the ultimate mg released (majority of all esters are released in the first 72 hours anyway)

    The constant application of prop, suspension and drugs that are
    Acetate esters cause for more room for error

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    Barbarian falpis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nationals09 View Post
    The only thing you have to take in to account with different esters (time and release) is the majority of side effects come from one of two places which both originate from the same place which is hormone level swings. When starting the use of testosterone, which primary function is to store nutrients more effectively which helps the conversion of slow burning clean carbs to glycogen quicker and storing into muscle tissue for future use (creating and full an round look) your body will take time to adjust to the swing up in levels. That being said it's easier to regulate an keep sustained with less variables the longer the ester secondly after the third week of say enth or cyp your dosages start stacking on top of one another compounding in the ultimate mg released (majority of all esters are released in the first 72 hours anyway)

    The constant application of prop, suspension and drugs that are
    Acetate esters cause for more room for error
    ok, he's gonna listen to his body and try to minimize the room for error.

  10. #10
    Juggernaut Nationals09's Avatar
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    Also with test alone and general health taken into account (cleanse,liver health, plenty of water, antioxidants, pro bios etc)

    Nothing wrong with 13-16 weeks
    I cycle until my body stops responding in direct correlation to the compounds used in the process

    Bear in mind, my diet, vitamins, water, supps even deep tissue therapy is scheduled an typically perfect

    So it's tough to know what "works" if you are just winging it an have no plan

  11. #11
    Barbarian falpis's Avatar
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    For those interested, I've recreated this discussion in the chemical main section (http://forums.musculardevelopment.co...ood-first-ride)!

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