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Thread: Lee Haney: "Too Many Gurus" The 8x Mr. Olympia Says Become Your Own Coach

  1. #18
    Colemanesque Beti ona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhuge View Post
    tell me the lastime a bodybuilder won the mr olympia without a coach (guru).
    then tell me they are a waste of time.
    Bodybuilding/nutrition is alot different to when lee haney competed.
    Most all the guys have gurus, then, there can be an MO without.

    Morel do his shit, he has made more progress than anyone.

    Compton also seems to do it without much help.
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  2. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhuge View Post
    tell me the lastime a bodybuilder won the mr olympia without a coach (guru).
    then tell me they are a waste of time.
    Bodybuilding/nutrition is alot different to when lee haney competed.
    Dorian won 6 with no gurus. The diet isn't that much different, the drugs are what the help is needed for
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    Online Editor Ron Harris's Avatar
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    The argument FOR gurus seems to be that the drug situation is so much more complicated now that guys can't possibly figure it out on their own to time out all their slin, carbs, diuretics, etc perfectly. My argument back would be, why do so many of these guys show up either flat or watery?? And why were the guys 20-30 years ago in much better condition in general, consistently? Gurus don't seem to be making better physiques on stage.
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  4. #21
    Forum Leader: 18 and Over bigmikecox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Harris View Post
    The argument FOR gurus seems to be that the drug situation is so much more complicated now that guys can't possibly figure it out on their own to time out all their slin, carbs, diuretics, etc perfectly. My argument back would be, why do so many of these guys show up either flat or watery?? And why were the guys 20-30 years ago in much better condition in general, consistently? Gurus don't seem to be making better physiques on stage.
    That's a good point. Even with Chad, Flex and Ronnie had a few show were they were off.
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  5. #22
    Forum Judge Howard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayor of bodybuilding View Post
    Lee Haney is the voice of reason in the Bodybuilding world! The IFBB needs to put Lee in Leadership position in order to right the ship!
    This is yet another reason why I place Lee above all other Mr Olympia winners ( even Arnold).
    I love how he wrote that bodybuilders today are lazy and want to "abdicate" all responsibility for their conditioning to a guru!

    Every time someone talks about competing in anything from bikini to bodybuilding, they quickly get asked ;
    " Who is doing your diet? "
    It reminds me of Academy Awards night where they ask the stars ; " Who, are you wearing?"

    Has it become so hard to diet now, that you need a special guru? WTF
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    Forum Judge Howard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Harris View Post
    The argument FOR gurus seems to be that the drug situation is so much more complicated now that guys can't possibly figure it out on their own to time out all their slin, carbs, diuretics, etc perfectly. My argument back would be, why do so many of these guys show up either flat or watery?? And why were the guys 20-30 years ago in much better condition in general, consistently? Gurus don't seem to be making better physiques on stage.
    Bingo!

    Look at how shredded Zane got back in 1970's and he was his own guru.
    Lee mentioned Gaspari's incredible , ripped conditioning accomplished WITHOUT a guru in the 1980's!

    Drugs have always been part of hardcore bodybuilding, but so has strict dieting and intense training.
    Shawn Ray has been rightly critical of the LACK of sharp muscularity in the line ups of modern contests.

    In my observations, way too much attention is now on extreme drug regimes and gimmicks.
    Strict, rigid, old fashion , contest prep DIET will always be the overwhelming factor in getting ripped
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  7. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmikecox View Post
    That's a good point. Even with Chad, Flex and Ronnie had a few show were they were off.
    Yes but Ronnie sure got a lot of help from Chad!

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    Colemanesque Beti ona's Avatar
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    When you have more variables, is harder to work synergistically. Major drug combination can give an amazing result, but for every guy is with condition, another 10 are worse than if they had a more simpler protocol.
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  9. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beti ona View Post
    When you have more variables, is harder to work synergistically. Major drug combination can give an amazing result, but for every guy is with condition, another 10 are worse than if they had a more simpler protocol.
    Bing bing bing, we have a winner. Not saying I disagree with Lee, BUT, there is a LOT more polypharmacology at play these days-- not just gear, but slin, growth, peptides, AI's, and tons of variations therein. With all that crap in the body, it introduces a slew of new variables-- variables that are often hard, if not impossible, to predict. In a "perfect world", it allows guys to come in MUCH bigger, rounder, and theoretically leaner. In large part why the top guys are much bigger nowadays. But the trade for that, is that "the simplicity of dieting" becomes a crap shoot-- maybe you'll nail it, maybe you won't. Which, I would guess, is why EVERYBODY insists on using a coach these days.

    Again, not taking sides on the argument, just untangling why the thinking is why it is these days.

    -lifepulse

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    Online Editor Ron Harris's Avatar
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    Lifepulse, good points. I never had a guru and was pretty consistently in great shape (I am aware my mass and shape are nothing special). But I wasn't using slin, GH, or peptides, just the other stuff. Maybe it's those 3 items in particular that are the issue with making it so tough to peak?
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  11. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by bhuge View Post
    tell me the lastime a bodybuilder won the mr olympia without a coach (guru).
    then tell me they are a waste of time.
    Bodybuilding/nutrition is alot different to when lee haney competed.
    .
    This, fellow muscualar development posters, is what we call illogical.
    Considering everyone has a friggin guru... this statement is redundant.

  12. #29

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    Nowadays, most bodybuilders under depleted state are completely unsure of the next step. From second guessing their diet to a hate/love relationship with the scale. They know what to do but some just feel comfortable with somebody with an outside view. I see positives and negatives.

  13. #30

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    I don't like the term guru. These guys are more like walking encyclopedias when it comes to drugs, and diet. With that being said, modern day bodybuilding has become far more complex, but that doesn't necessarily mean the physiques have gotten better. These bloated monsters don't really impress compared to the conditioning of the 90s, even though they are bigger than the guys from the 90s.

    The big difference I can see in today vs the past is that bodybuilders nowadays are just robots. They have the genetics, and they do what they are told. Back in the 70-90s it was much more individual, where every guy figured out what was required on his own experience.
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  14. #31
    Online Editor Ron Harris's Avatar
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    Much respect to guys like Wolf and Evan who do it on their own. You can argue that they don't nail it all the time, but neither do the guys using coaches.
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    Juggernaut bigoso's Avatar
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    Everyone talks about conditioning of the 90's. I can agree there were more guys in better shape in a given line up and more consistent. I would argue however that the most conditioned guys now are more conditioned than guys in the 90's


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    Quote Originally Posted by bigoso View Post
    Everyone talks about conditioning of the 90's. I can agree there were more guys in better shape in a given line up and more consistent. I would argue however that the most conditioned guys now are more conditioned than guys in the 90's
    Perhaps so, in some cases.
    But the 90s guys also seemed to have better and deeper separation.

  17. #34
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    I dont think I could prep myself Im too weak.

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