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Thread: The Ketogenic Diet - The Good, Bad & Ugly

  1. #35
    IFBB - PRO Evan Centopani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberpump View Post
    Evan, what are your thoughts on IIFYM and that statement that the type of food doesn't matter? Just the calories. So, poptarts are just dandy if it fits your macros. I personally think that is crap and it also depends on the person and how they as an individual react to carbs, dairy, etc.
    It's total shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberpump View Post
    Evan, what are your thoughts on IIFYM and that statement that the type of food doesn't matter? Just the calories. So, poptarts are just dandy if it fits your macros. I personally think that is crap and it also depends on the person and how they as an individual react to carbs, dairy, etc.
    This is total rubbish from a bodybuilding perspective and a general health perspective too. Not all calories are created equal and any one clued up on nutrition will tell you this. Not to mention the negative affect on your gut/organs. You can't compare eating an equivalent amount of calories from whole foods v a load of processed sugar/transaturated fats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjoe View Post
    I learned about keto diets initially form Palumbo. The reason for his weekly cheat meals (after initial 2 weeks) is to kick up metabolism. I tend to agree. I think if you are even bigger than average you may even get away with one every 4-5 days depending on how far out you are etc.
    I also tend to think that when MOST people stop keto, they just go nuts and stomach issues are magnified. If they just eased back in a bit I think most of that would be eliminated. Say 40g after training for a week. Then maybe another 40g pre training for a week. Third week add in another 40 at breakfast, etc. In 3 short weeks you're back over 120g with ease and probably no issues. IMO of course.
    Met

    Me too. A once weekly cheat might or might not be enough to keep the metabolism stimulated. I feel (and this could jus be for ME) that 2x weekly carb load is the minimum or metabolism slows. As you said, easing back into carb consumption will do the trick for digestion...but for someone who has been dieting for 16 weeks and pushed things to the max, that kind of restraint is a lot to ask!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jags93 View Post
    This is total rubbish from a bodybuilding perspective and a general health perspective too. Not all calories are created equal and any one clued up on nutrition will tell you this. Not to mention the negative affect on your gut/organs. You can't compare eating an equivalent amount of calories from whole foods v a load of processed sugar/transaturated fats.
    Ifyoum

    Anyone trying to tell you "A calories is a calorie" should be turned and run away from.

  5. #39
    Forum Leader: Training Journals tjoe's Avatar
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    Thank you Evan. What do you think about the higher protein intake knocking you out of ketosis.
    I feel that with more muscle to support, the body would still go after fats first before trying to convert protein.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Centopani View Post
    I've run keto in the past and feel that it has MANY benefits. It COULD fall short in a couple areas for SOME bodybuilders but generally speaking, I think it is a very underrated way to diet. Not running keto at the moment but since my injury I cut carbs WAY down and pretty much removed grain entirely. I do get a good bit of carbs from papaya and pineapple as I feel their high enzyme content is worthwhile at the moment and I do have an occasional piece or two of whole grain rye bread as a treat along with the bone marrow that I've been eating every few days. I have to say that I, injury aside, I feel better than I did before. Looking forward, I think that going a paleo type route may be best for me. It does not forbid me from including carbs in my diet but grain is out and that forces me to rely more on proteins and fats for my calories. Just thinking.
    Evan, I've watched your food prep vids since your earliest with Dave and Guy Cisternino back in the day - talking about mac nut oil and cooking veggies on a fry pan in that tiny hotel looking room. Your approach to food has evolved and been awesome to watch, as there's no doubt you're way more responsible and health conscious when it comes to micronutrients, fiber intake, the importance of green vegetables etc etc.
    I've been meaning to ask you this, but with your obvious interest in healthy food, have you ever considered becoming vegan? I think most of us on here would know who vegan gains is and no doubt his channel is mostly geared towards giving industry figures a rev, but he does show some interesting, evidence based research, especially around the consumption of red meat, chicken, fish, dairy etc. It has made me think twice anyways - not about becoming a full time vegan (I live in a remote place so our fresh food options are limited and expensive) but maybe adjusting my diet to like an 80/20 ratio of mostly vegan foods and the rest being made up of animal products.. what are your thoughts on it all?
    Cheers bro and good luck with the injury rehab.

  7. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjoe View Post
    Thank you Evan. What do you think about the higher protein intake knocking you out of ketosis.
    I feel that with more muscle to support, the body would still go after fats first before trying to convert protein.
    Idon'tk

    I don't know..I've wondered the same thing. I think that the body would STILL prefer to use fat for energy instead of protein even if protein exists in excess. But I don't know for certain.

  8. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayel1984 View Post
    Evan, I've watched your food prep vids since your earliest with Dave and Guy Cisternino back in the day - talking about mac nut oil and cooking veggies on a fry pan in that tiny hotel looking room. Your approach to food has evolved and been awesome to watch, as there's no doubt you're way more responsible and health conscious when it comes to micronutrients, fiber intake, the importance of green vegetables etc etc.
    I've been meaning to ask you this, but with your obvious interest in healthy food, have you ever considered becoming vegan? I think most of us on here would know who vegan gains is and no doubt his channel is mostly geared towards giving industry figures a rev, but he does show some interesting, evidence based research, especially around the consumption of red meat, chicken, fish, dairy etc. It has made me think twice anyways - not about becoming a full time vegan (I live in a remote place so our fresh food options are limited and expensive) but maybe adjusting my diet to like an 80/20 ratio of mostly vegan foods and the rest being made up of animal products.. what are your thoughts on it all?
    Cheers bro and good luck with the injury rehab.
    I don't think (but don't know for sure) that veganism is a viable option for most competitive bodybuilders. I also don't believe that veganism makes sense unless your reason for doing so is based in strong moral objections to the consumption of animals and or their products. When it comes to optimal health, I can absolutely make sense out of reducing animal food intake but I cannot make sense out of eliminating it entirely. To vow to never again consume a single piece of fish or an egg simply doesn't make sense to me from a health perspective. I believe that animal foods can be valuable and healthy when balanced. Veganism is too extreme in my own humble opinion. Of course, I have no objection to anyone else adopting veganism; if that's the route a person chooses, I think that's great.

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    Forum Leader: Training Journals tjoe's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input Evan. Hope the leg is healing up quickly for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Centopani View Post
    I've run keto in the past and feel that it has MANY benefits. It COULD fall short in a couple areas for SOME bodybuilders but generally speaking, I think it is a very underrated way to diet. Not running keto at the moment but since my injury I cut carbs WAY down and pretty much removed grain entirely. I do get a good bit of carbs from papaya and pineapple as I feel their high enzyme content is worthwhile at the moment and I do have an occasional piece or two of whole grain rye bread as a treat along with the bone marrow that I've been eating every few days. I have to say that I, injury aside, I feel better than I did before. Looking forward, I think that going a paleo type route may be best for me. It does not forbid me from including carbs in my diet but grain is out and that forces me to rely more on proteins and fats for my calories. Just thinking.
    I have done very controlled experiments on myself due to my genetics for having high cholesterol. Just eating a few eggs on an every other day basis (poached) raises my overall chol to about the 200 level. My diet was very controlled during this experiment. I literally had to exclude red meat from my diet (even grass fed lean read meat) to control my chol below 200. Eating red meat puts it up over 250 easily. Yeah, my ratio was great and my triglycerides were rock bottom but I just cannot take the risk until there is a lot more data on overall Chol levels and other markers. Again, another controlled experiment on myself. Low carb (only from veggies), no gluten or dairy, etc. works super well for me to stay very lean (and feel great).
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  11. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Centopani View Post
    I don't think (but don't know for sure) that veganism is a viable option for most competitive bodybuilders. I also don't believe that veganism makes sense unless your reason for doing so is based in strong moral objections to the consumption of animals and or their products. When it comes to optimal health, I can absolutely make sense out of reducing animal food intake but I cannot make sense out of eliminating it entirely. To vow to never again consume a single piece of fish or an egg simply doesn't make sense to me from a health perspective. I believe that animal foods can be valuable and healthy when balanced. Veganism is too extreme in my own humble opinion. Of course, I have no objection to anyone else adopting veganism; if that's the route a person chooses, I think that's great.
    Thanks for the answer Evan. I have to agree with you in terms of reducing animal food intake, as opposed to completely
    eliminating it altogether.. sometimes I'll feel like eggs, or steak, ground beef or a piece of fish.
    I think though sometimes bodybuilders get caught in the trap of not realising the importance of micronutrients and foods dense in live enzymes. One need only watch any of Ronnie Colemans training videos to see that the dudes vegetable and fruit intake was minimal, at best. When a bodybuilder adds up the Whey Protein (dairy), plus beef, tuna, chicken, eggs etc etc, I think they have to start balancing that shit out, to get the shit out (literally!!).
    Where diary is concerned, id pretty much recommend avoiding it entirely - but where does that leave our protein powders, which are considered a staple of our supplementation?

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    An actual keto diet is 80% fat or more, it's not what bodybuilders do. It does have tons and tons of health benefits, however it is not optimal for bodybuilders.

    Bodybuilders aim to do "more" as less calories come in. Micro and Macro nutrients from Fats, Proteins and Carbs are essential to keep organ health at peak underneath this stress.

    In-jesting all 3 macros , one can easily get into contest shape. Takes practice and timing, but can be done.

    I know all about essential Nutrients, seeing how I almost died after a contest prep from lack there of. (I was doing keto, not real keto though 80% fat)

    I now diet with all 3 macros and drink pedilite these days.

    No amount of abs is worth your health.

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    There are not many studies on keto and resistance training but here is one:

    http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Ab...ody.96026.aspx

    Interesting results, test levels went up on the keto diet (I had the same experience)
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    I'm a firm believer in keto now, I will eat this way probably for the rest of my life. I'm cure entry 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs. I eat a fuck ton of veggies especially ones high in vitamin C. I'm laid up right now recovering from surgery to attach my torn tricep (tore it from the inner elbow). I'm also doing intermittent fasting for 16-20 hours daily then eat 2-3 very large meals with some bullet proof coffee here and there. I have never felt this good in my 45 yrs of being on this earth, brain is on super fuel and it's amazing to be fully fat adapted, hard getting there but we'll worth it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-boy View Post
    I'm a firm believer in keto now, I will eat this way probably for the rest of my life. I'm cure entry 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs. I eat a fuck ton of veggies especially ones high in vitamin C. I'm laid up right now recovering from surgery to attach my torn tricep (tore it from the inner elbow). I'm also doing intermittent fasting for 16-20 hours daily then eat 2-3 very large meals with some bullet proof coffee here and there. I have never felt this good in my 45 yrs of being on this earth, brain is on super fuel and it's amazing to be fully fat adapted, hard getting there but we'll worth it.
    How long have you being doing keto? Do you do refeeds? How do your workout compare to when you were on a high carb diet?

    Speedy recovery and hope you come back stronger

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donflex View Post
    How long have you being doing keto? Do you do refeeds? How do your workout compare to when you were on a high carb diet?

    Speedy recovery and hope you come back stronger
    Energy is great I have been doing keto for about 3 months but it was bodybuilding styles with too much protein because I was thinking like a meathead. Been on a true ketogenic diet and fasting for 3 weeKS now and I feel truly amazing. I don't do refeeds and never will again. My body is so adapted now that I can easily store glucose from the trace carbs in veggies and nuts. My workout partner is on about 400 grams of carbs daily and I'm kicking his ass on leg day..LOL ...FUCK CARBS. :-)
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