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Thread: The Ketogenic Diet - The Good, Bad & Ugly

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    Is it a coincidence that Toney Freeman looked his best when working with Dave Palumbo?

  2. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefyfan View Post
    Is it a coincidence that Toney Freeman looked his best when working with Dave Palumbo?
    Yes

    Age caught up with Toney

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    Quote Originally Posted by majrminer View Post
    While an extremely small fraction of the population may have a genuine need or pointed use for ketogenic diets, the majority of people don't. It's a good thing keto is a thing, or I think many people would get bored with eating. It's kind of strange though, the way people on keto speak almost in a tone of superiority, like Crossfitters on their paleo diets. A food tweak! X didn't work, so I tried Y. Smart! Problem in most cases is that X wasn't strictly adhered to to begin with, so the laziness and boredom created a want for something new. And now the new trend of supplemental ketones. People get bored so easily. Bro, eat some bread.
    The scientific evidence talks about it, nothing to do with the crossfit example.
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    Originally Posted by majrminer
    While an extremely small fraction of the population may have a genuine need or pointed use for ketogenic diets, the majority of people don't. It's a good thing keto is a thing, or I think many people would get bored with eating. It's kind of strange though, the way people on keto speak almost in a tone of superiority, like Crossfitters on their paleo diets. A food tweak! X didn't work, so I tried Y. Smart! Problem in most cases is that X wasn't strictly adhered to to begin with, so the laziness and boredom created a want for something new. And now the new trend of supplemental ketones. People get bored so easily. Bro, eat some bread.

    What type of diet do you use when you prep?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmikecox View Post
    Originally Posted by majrminer
    While an extremely small fraction of the population may have a genuine need or pointed use for ketogenic diets, the majority of people don't. It's a good thing keto is a thing, or I think many people would get bored with eating. It's kind of strange though, the way people on keto speak almost in a tone of superiority, like Crossfitters on their paleo diets. A food tweak! X didn't work, so I tried Y. Smart! Problem in most cases is that X wasn't strictly adhered to to begin with, so the laziness and boredom created a want for something new. And now the new trend of supplemental ketones. People get bored so easily. Bro, eat some bread.

    What type of diet do you use when you prep?
    As an ectomorph, I actually increase my carbs as I lean out, increase protein, and keep fats constant. A growth phase, followed by a cutting phase doesn't work well for me. A constant growth phase over several months allows me to add a couple solid pounds of muscle while losing at least 12 lbs of fat, which makes me appear much bigger than I am and makes it almost impossible for me to lose muscle. I realize endomorphs can't increase calories as they go, generally speaking. I think they could if they periodized their training and rest correctly, in conjunction with the increased calories, but few people know how or want to go through with that. Several of my past clients have made drastic transformations that way, and I'm not just talking about "untrained" individuals, and none of them used drugs. But going no carb is the wrong answer for most people. So many people do it because it's the fastest way to lose fat... But it's almost always the fastest way to results that causes other problems (perhaps many in this forum don't apply to what I'm saying here because of their experience level). Again, a small fraction of people, including bodybuilders, would actually benefit from ketogenic diets. I've experienced many bodybuilders, including endomorphs, who ruined their basal carbohydrate metabolism on true keto diets. Drugs obviously change the equation, as others have pointed out in this thread, but go ahead and look at any drug user when they come off everything. Very few of them maintain, and most of them look worse than when they started
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-boy View Post
    It depends some days I eat a lot more, some days slightly less.
    Yesterday.
    Meal one - 4 whole eggs, 25 grams of whey isolate, 56 grams of mozzarella cheese, a kale shake made with 1 cup unsweetened almond milk and 48 grams of raw kale, 3 oz avacado
    Meal 2 - 7 oz grass fed steak cooked in grass fed butter, 2 oz almonds, 1 larget salad of mixed greens, 28 grams of cheddar cheese and 1 tbls of Chipotle infused flavor extra virgin olive oil, 2 tbls. Of smuckers natural peanutbutter.
    crazy how many believe that you have to eat 4-6 meals per day, most meals containing carbs, just to keep your size
    most of these believers have never tried the two meals per day approach while continuing a solid workout regimen. if you can get your calories where they need to be from two meals and some bulletproof coffee, then why not implement such a program? it gives you more time in the day to enjoy your life and work, along with all the benefits already mentioned in thread if you are doing this program with a keto diet

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    I agree on all accounts ^^^^^
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    Quote Originally Posted by majrminer View Post
    While an extremely small fraction of the population may have a genuine need or pointed use for ketogenic diets, the majority of people don't. It's a good thing keto is a thing, or I think many people would get bored with eating. It's kind of strange though, the way people on keto speak almost in a tone of superiority, like Crossfitters on their paleo diets. A food tweak! X didn't work, so I tried Y. Smart! Problem in most cases is that X wasn't strictly adhered to to begin with, so the laziness and boredom created a want for something new. And now the new trend of supplemental ketones. People get bored so easily. Bro, eat some bread.
    Dude imo it's not about keto. There are some foods that we should ALL eats (copious amounts of vegetables, avocados, sock eye salmon etc) and there are food that we should ALL avoid (processes foods/meats, vegetable oils and sugar). There isn't much nutritional value in bread or pasta either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b-boy View Post
    1:00 pm - bullet proof coffee with 20 grams of grass fed butter and 20 grams of coconut oil
    3:00 - train legs, left arm, calves, and side lateral machine on mon, wed, fri. On tue, thurs, sat. Do 15 min of HIT cardio
    4:00-4:30 - post workout shake of 25 grams whey isolate, 1 cup of almond milk unsweetened, 45 grams of raw kale, 45 grams of raw broccoli, 1 oz of walnuts and 1 tbls. Olive oil
    7:00pm - 4 whole eggs scrambled in grass fed butter with cheese and veggies, 1 can of sardines in spring water, 1 oz of almonds
    9:00 - very large salid with 6 oz of wild caught salmon on it, olive oil and apple cider vinegar dressing, 3 turkey balls (made like meatballs). Usually this is all I have some days more some days more food in form of fat.
    Have you tried grass fed collagen protein in the bulletproof coffee? I've just started taking the Vital Protein brand as heard very good things....

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    Quote Originally Posted by jags93 View Post
    Have you tried grass fed collagen protein in the bulletproof coffee? I've just started taking the Vital Protein brand as heard very good things....
    no i have not tried that
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    Quote Originally Posted by jags93 View Post
    Dude imo it's not about keto. There are some foods that we should ALL eats (copious amounts of vegetables, avocados, sock eye salmon etc) and there are food that we should ALL avoid (processes foods/meats, vegetable oils and sugar). There isn't much nutritional value in bread or pasta either.
    Agree, but if you have a fast metabolism, protein, vegetables and fat alone won't put size on. Aging individuals with slowing metabolism will see great benefit from carb reduction in many ways, but also flatter muscles

    These people who claim they don't lose fullness on keto are batty. They may adapt to it, but will never have maximal glycogen load
    BIG CALVES MEAN EVERYTHING. . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by majrminer View Post
    Agree, but if you have a fast metabolism, protein, vegetables and fat alone won't put size on. Aging individuals with slowing metabolism will see great benefit from carb reduction in many ways, but also flatter muscles

    These people who claim they don't lose fullness on keto are batty. They may adapt to it, but will never have maximal glycogen load
    My metabolism is ridiculously fast and I'm a real ectomorph. I eat a lot of healthy days rather than carbs these days but am not trying to weigh 230lbs, so perhaps have different goals. From a health perspective this approach is way better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b-boy View Post
    no i have not tried that
    It's worth a try....great amino acid profile and will make you look 10 years younger too

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    Quote Originally Posted by majrminer View Post
    These people who claim they don't lose fullness on keto are batty. They may adapt to it, but will never have maximal glycogen load
    At any time you can return to a diet of rice and oats, and guess what: Your body will respond much more efficiently to hydrates than if you are always eating them.
    «Humanity has been led by failures.»

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beti ona View Post
    At any time you can return to a diet of rice and oats, and guess what: Your body will respond much more efficiently to hydrates than if you are always eating them.
    Yes, for those who've been low carb for too long, they risk easy conversion of glucose to fat. Again, this may not happen to one of us who knows these facts, but happens frequently to the average population looking to lose weight, or get shredded... which is actually way more people than the types that frequent this forum. Most people on earth will not follow a low carb diet for life, so when they actually try one, they end up gaining more weight back than they had when they started the diet... because glucose metabolism changes

    People who follow low-carb diets for a long period of time:
    - bodybuilders
    - athletes who buy into the performance/inflammation aspect of it
    - Dieticians
    - Doctors with nutritional knowledge (which are few)
    - Affluent people who get bored and want to follow a fad

    So you can see, extremely few people will actually follow a keto-style diet for more than 12 weeks, and it takes several weeks to actually get into ketosis, according to many. Those who DO follow it will often have enough knowledge (because they tend to be more educated and have more discipline) to avoid the metabolic pitfall associated with keto diets. Even competitors often don't know how to avoid the fat gain post-keto diet. I've seen it happen to more people than I can count, again, because the average person going onto a keto without supervision or instruction will simply mess with their glucose metabolism without knowing any better
    Last edited by majrminer; May 9th, 2017 at 04:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jags93 View Post
    My metabolism is ridiculously fast and I'm a real ectomorph. I eat a lot of healthy days rather than carbs these days but am not trying to weigh 230lbs, so perhaps have different goals. From a health perspective this approach is way better.
    I agree with this approach (lower carb, better carb, higher fat, lower protein), and have adopted it this year for the reasons you state. But with my fast metabolism, I need a high carb day at least 3 days a week or risk losing too much weight since I workout 4 days per week on average and eat clean roughly 6 days a week or all week. I also do not aim to be much over 200, but don't personally feel enough strength if I lose maintenance muscle. My endomorph friends are naturally strong, bigger boned, but can't eat a slice of bread or gain weight... they say how lucky I am to be able to pound carbs, but I don't look at it that way because I eat all my nutrients for performance and health/fitness. Happy to say I don't eat 500g carbs and 300g protein/day anymore. That was a full-time job in itself and washing dishes was my cardio... but believe it or not, I was stronger and leaner than I have ever been
    Last edited by majrminer; May 9th, 2017 at 04:47 AM.
    BIG CALVES MEAN EVERYTHING. . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by majrminer View Post
    I agree with this approach (lower carb, better carb, higher fat, lower protein), and have adopted it this year for the reasons you state. But with my fast metabolism, I need a high carb day at least 3 days a week or risk losing too much weight since I workout 4 days per week on average and eat clean roughly 6 days a week or all week. I also do not aim to be much over 200, but don't personally feel enough strength if I lose maintenance muscle. My endomorph friends are naturally strong, bigger boned, but can't eat a slice of bread or gain weight... they say how lucky I am to be able to pound carbs, but I don't look at it that way because I eat all my nutrients for performance and health/fitness. Happy to say I don't eat 500g carbs and 300g protein/day anymore. That was a full-time job in itself and washing dishes was my cardio... but believe it or not, I was stronger and leaner than I have ever been
    totally agree. I'm not on a keto diet but more low carbs. I have a crazy fast metabolism and can eat 4,000 calories (of anything) without working out at 180lbs and not put on any body fat. So, I do need carbs too! As I'm not bodybuilding (just doing two high intensity weights sessions a week) I'm now focussed more on overall health and longevity. Those endomorphs are so lucky...some guys are freaks and can eat hardly anything and still maintain a lot of mass. It's clearly working for guys like B-boy.

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