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  1. #1
    Administrator Nate's Avatar
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    Default The Ketogenic Diet - The Good, Bad & Ugly


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    Forum Leader: Training Journals tjoe's Avatar
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    "Unfortunately, while ketogenic diets do stimulate weight loss, a significant percentage of that bodyweight lost is muscle mass. This is because ketogenic diets inhibit the muscle-sparing activity of mTOR, causing an increased use of muscle protein for energy— resulting in a loss of muscle."



    and then I quit reading.
    Most of the time, especially in this audience, the people trying a keto diet are juiced up and going into a show. That fact alone is going to sway this whole article.
    Now toss in the vague idea of "Ketogenic" in itself. If we are talking the 80% fat and 20% protein then maybe some of this holds water, but we all know this again will NOT apply to the
    audience in question. During an off season with plenty of calories from carbs and fats you can get away with about 1g of pro per pound of bodyweight. I doubt many here stick to that come contest time (when you'd run a keto diet). They are more likely going to be consuming 1.5-2.0g of protein per pound. This would bring the fat content down dramatically. Again, shifting the whole idea of this article.
    Now of course some will argue that with protein that high you won't be in keto as your body will convert some of that for energy. I disagree and think once again the audience needs to be kept in mind. They are not sedentary people sitting at a desk all day. They have more muscle than the average, they crush weights several times a week and I am sure hit plenty of cardio (especially since we are talking show prep, why else would we be talking keto)?

    I always hate these articles that hint or even directly say that keto is not good for building muscle. Who said it was? It is pretty damn good at holding onto muscle while dropping some pounds though. And isn't that why people use it anyway? (again, in this audience).
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  3. #3

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    Very true. I should have read your post before I just posted mine!
    Quote Originally Posted by tjoe View Post
    "Unfortunately, while ketogenic diets do stimulate weight loss, a significant percentage of that bodyweight lost is muscle mass. This is because ketogenic diets inhibit the muscle-sparing activity of mTOR, causing an increased use of muscle protein for energy— resulting in a loss of muscle."



    and then I quit reading.
    Most of the time, especially in this audience, the people trying a keto diet are juiced up and going into a show. That fact alone is going to sway this whole article.
    Now toss in the vague idea of "Ketogenic" in itself. If we are talking the 80% fat and 20% protein then maybe some of this holds water, but we all know this again will NOT apply to the
    audience in question. During an off season with plenty of calories from carbs and fats you can get away with about 1g of pro per pound of bodyweight. I doubt many here stick to that come contest time (when you'd run a keto diet). They are more likely going to be consuming 1.5-2.0g of protein per pound. This would bring the fat content down dramatically. Again, shifting the whole idea of this article.
    Now of course some will argue that with protein that high you won't be in keto as your body will convert some of that for energy. I disagree and think once again the audience needs to be kept in mind. They are not sedentary people sitting at a desk all day. They have more muscle than the average, they crush weights several times a week and I am sure hit plenty of cardio (especially since we are talking show prep, why else would we be talking keto)?

    I always hate these articles that hint or even directly say that keto is not good for building muscle. Who said it was? It is pretty damn good at holding onto muscle while dropping some pounds though. And isn't that why people use it anyway? (again, in this audience).

  4. #4
    Forum Leader: 18 and Over bigmikecox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjoe View Post
    "Unfortunately, while ketogenic diets do stimulate weight loss, a significant percentage of that bodyweight lost is muscle mass. This is because ketogenic diets inhibit the muscle-sparing activity of mTOR, causing an increased use of muscle protein for energy— resulting in a loss of muscle."



    and then I quit reading.
    Most of the time, especially in this audience, the people trying a keto diet are juiced up and going into a show. That fact alone is going to sway this whole article.
    Now toss in the vague idea of "Ketogenic" in itself. If we are talking the 80% fat and 20% protein then maybe some of this holds water, but we all know this again will NOT apply to the
    audience in question. During an off season with plenty of calories from carbs and fats you can get away with about 1g of pro per pound of bodyweight. I doubt many here stick to that come contest time (when you'd run a keto diet). They are more likely going to be consuming 1.5-2.0g of protein per pound. This would bring the fat content down dramatically. Again, shifting the whole idea of this article.
    Now of course some will argue that with protein that high you won't be in keto as your body will convert some of that for energy. I disagree and think once again the audience needs to be kept in mind. They are not sedentary people sitting at a desk all day. They have more muscle than the average, they crush weights several times a week and I am sure hit plenty of cardio (especially since we are talking show prep, why else would we be talking keto)?

    I always hate these articles that hint or even directly say that keto is not good for building muscle. Who said it was? It is pretty damn good at holding onto muscle while dropping some pounds though. And isn't that why people use it anyway? (again, in this audience).
    Good points Joe
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    Juggernaut modredtrenton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjoe View Post
    "Unfortunately, while ketogenic diets do stimulate weight loss, a significant percentage of that bodyweight lost is muscle mass. This is because ketogenic diets inhibit the muscle-sparing activity of mTOR, causing an increased use of muscle protein for energy— resulting in a loss of muscle."



    and then I quit reading.
    Most of the time, especially in this audience, the people trying a keto diet are juiced up and going into a show. That fact alone is going to sway this whole article.
    Now toss in the vague idea of "Ketogenic" in itself. If we are talking the 80% fat and 20% protein then maybe some of this holds water, but we all know this again will NOT apply to the
    audience in question. During an off season with plenty of calories from carbs and fats you can get away with about 1g of pro per pound of bodyweight. I doubt many here stick to that come contest time (when you'd run a keto diet). They are more likely going to be consuming 1.5-2.0g of protein per pound. This would bring the fat content down dramatically. Again, shifting the whole idea of this article.
    Now of course some will argue that with protein that high you won't be in keto as your body will convert some of that for energy. I disagree and think once again the audience needs to be kept in mind. They are not sedentary people sitting at a desk all day. They have more muscle than the average, they crush weights several times a week and I am sure hit plenty of cardio (especially since we are talking show prep, why else would we be talking keto)?

    I always hate these articles that hint or even directly say that keto is not good for building muscle. Who said it was? It is pretty damn good at holding onto muscle while dropping some pounds though. And isn't that why people use it anyway? (again, in this audience).
    very true! i am on very very low carbs for 4 years now . i am as strong as ever and you can bet i did not lose any muscle at all while dropping my weight from 116.8 kilos to 89 kilos. keto done the right way is great!

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    Little Guy Mike4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by modredtrenton View Post
    very true! i am on very very low carbs for 4 years now . i am as strong as ever and you can bet i did not lose any muscle at all while dropping my weight from 116.8 kilos to 89 kilos. keto done the right way is great!
    So do you eat what little carbs you do eat before/after your workout to improve mTor functioning? What is your fat intake like?

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    Juggernaut modredtrenton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike4 View Post
    So do you eat what little carbs you do eat before/after your workout to improve mTor functioning? What is your fat intake like?
    i eat no direct carbs. i only have what is in nuts or other keto food anyway. fat intake is abouet 0.5-0.75 gramms per pound bodyweight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjoe View Post
    "Unfortunately, while ketogenic diets do stimulate weight loss, a significant percentage of that bodyweight lost is muscle mass. This is because ketogenic diets inhibit the muscle-sparing activity of mTOR, causing an increased use of muscle protein for energy— resulting in a loss of muscle."



    and then I quit reading.
    Most of the time, especially in this audience, the people trying a keto diet are juiced up and going into a show. That fact alone is going to sway this whole article.
    Now toss in the vague idea of "Ketogenic" in itself. If we are talking the 80% fat and 20% protein then maybe some of this holds water, but we all know this again will NOT apply to the
    audience in question. During an off season with plenty of calories from carbs and fats you can get away with about 1g of pro per pound of bodyweight. I doubt many here stick to that come contest time (when you'd run a keto diet). They are more likely going to be consuming 1.5-2.0g of protein per pound. This would bring the fat content down dramatically. Again, shifting the whole idea of this article.
    Now of course some will argue that with protein that high you won't be in keto as your body will convert some of that for energy. I disagree and think once again the audience needs to be kept in mind. They are not sedentary people sitting at a desk all day. They have more muscle than the average, they crush weights several times a week and I am sure hit plenty of cardio (especially since we are talking show prep, why else would we be talking keto)?

    I always hate these articles that hint or even directly say that keto is not good for building muscle. Who said it was? It is pretty damn good at holding onto muscle while dropping some pounds though. And isn't that why people use it anyway? (again, in this audience).
    Agree and agree. This article seems to assume the user isn't eating any carbs pre and post workout. Like you said, 80/20 fat to pro with 0 carbs would likely make this article more truthful, but the majority of muscular people consistently lifting weights on a keto diet are eating quality calories around their workouts and don't tend to waste away in terms of muscularity.

  9. #9

    Default Since when has keto been low protein?

    Never heard that! Where did Michael J. Rudolph, Ph.D. get that info?

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    Colemanesque Beti ona's Avatar
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    I would swear to have read and commented that same article a few months ago.
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    Bodybuilders who have not tried a ketogenic diet are missing out. If you're on steroids, dieting for a contest, not trying to grow into a show just get shredded...this diet is ideal. When I run 75%,20%5% I get shredded so fast it's nuts. I'm doing it right now, my changes are daily.

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    Forum Leader: 18 and Over bigmikecox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by letsrun4it View Post
    Bodybuilders who have not tried a ketogenic diet are missing out. If you're on steroids, dieting for a contest, not trying to grow into a show just get shredded...this diet is ideal. When I run 75%,20%5% I get shredded so fast it's nuts. I'm doing it right now, my changes are daily.
    Where do you get your fats from?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmikecox View Post
    Where do you get your fats from?
    Nuts,avocado's,olive-and-coconut-oil,fat fish, ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by macmac View Post
    Nuts,avocado's,olive-and-coconut-oil,fat fish, ...
    Same. Also have some grass fed butter, eggs, steak chia seeds and nut butters. Be careful with almond butter and cashew nut butter as they can be addictive. I can get through a kilo in a week or two

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    ANIMAL naturalguy's Avatar
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    Evan convinced me to try Keto and I feel great on it
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    Does ketosis start at 0.5 urine ketones?

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    ANIMAL naturalguy's Avatar
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    Here is an interesting study done on the long term effects and safety of a keto diet, this is the first one I've seen that is long term:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/
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