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Thread: The Ketogenic Diet - The Good, Bad & Ugly

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    Administrator Nate's Avatar
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    Default The Ketogenic Diet - The Good, Bad & Ugly


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    Forum Leader: Training Journals tjoe's Avatar
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    "Unfortunately, while ketogenic diets do stimulate weight loss, a significant percentage of that bodyweight lost is muscle mass. This is because ketogenic diets inhibit the muscle-sparing activity of mTOR, causing an increased use of muscle protein for energy— resulting in a loss of muscle."



    and then I quit reading.
    Most of the time, especially in this audience, the people trying a keto diet are juiced up and going into a show. That fact alone is going to sway this whole article.
    Now toss in the vague idea of "Ketogenic" in itself. If we are talking the 80% fat and 20% protein then maybe some of this holds water, but we all know this again will NOT apply to the
    audience in question. During an off season with plenty of calories from carbs and fats you can get away with about 1g of pro per pound of bodyweight. I doubt many here stick to that come contest time (when you'd run a keto diet). They are more likely going to be consuming 1.5-2.0g of protein per pound. This would bring the fat content down dramatically. Again, shifting the whole idea of this article.
    Now of course some will argue that with protein that high you won't be in keto as your body will convert some of that for energy. I disagree and think once again the audience needs to be kept in mind. They are not sedentary people sitting at a desk all day. They have more muscle than the average, they crush weights several times a week and I am sure hit plenty of cardio (especially since we are talking show prep, why else would we be talking keto)?

    I always hate these articles that hint or even directly say that keto is not good for building muscle. Who said it was? It is pretty damn good at holding onto muscle while dropping some pounds though. And isn't that why people use it anyway? (again, in this audience).
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  3. #3

    Default Since when has keto been low protein?

    Never heard that! Where did Michael J. Rudolph, Ph.D. get that info?

  4. #4

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    Very true. I should have read your post before I just posted mine!
    Quote Originally Posted by tjoe View Post
    "Unfortunately, while ketogenic diets do stimulate weight loss, a significant percentage of that bodyweight lost is muscle mass. This is because ketogenic diets inhibit the muscle-sparing activity of mTOR, causing an increased use of muscle protein for energy— resulting in a loss of muscle."



    and then I quit reading.
    Most of the time, especially in this audience, the people trying a keto diet are juiced up and going into a show. That fact alone is going to sway this whole article.
    Now toss in the vague idea of "Ketogenic" in itself. If we are talking the 80% fat and 20% protein then maybe some of this holds water, but we all know this again will NOT apply to the
    audience in question. During an off season with plenty of calories from carbs and fats you can get away with about 1g of pro per pound of bodyweight. I doubt many here stick to that come contest time (when you'd run a keto diet). They are more likely going to be consuming 1.5-2.0g of protein per pound. This would bring the fat content down dramatically. Again, shifting the whole idea of this article.
    Now of course some will argue that with protein that high you won't be in keto as your body will convert some of that for energy. I disagree and think once again the audience needs to be kept in mind. They are not sedentary people sitting at a desk all day. They have more muscle than the average, they crush weights several times a week and I am sure hit plenty of cardio (especially since we are talking show prep, why else would we be talking keto)?

    I always hate these articles that hint or even directly say that keto is not good for building muscle. Who said it was? It is pretty damn good at holding onto muscle while dropping some pounds though. And isn't that why people use it anyway? (again, in this audience).

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    Colemanesque Beti ona's Avatar
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    I would swear to have read and commented that same article a few months ago.
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    Bodybuilders who have not tried a ketogenic diet are missing out. If you're on steroids, dieting for a contest, not trying to grow into a show just get shredded...this diet is ideal. When I run 75%,20%5% I get shredded so fast it's nuts. I'm doing it right now, my changes are daily.

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    Forum Leader: 18 and Over bigmikecox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by letsrun4it View Post
    Bodybuilders who have not tried a ketogenic diet are missing out. If you're on steroids, dieting for a contest, not trying to grow into a show just get shredded...this diet is ideal. When I run 75%,20%5% I get shredded so fast it's nuts. I'm doing it right now, my changes are daily.
    Where do you get your fats from?
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    Forum Leader: 18 and Over bigmikecox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjoe View Post
    "Unfortunately, while ketogenic diets do stimulate weight loss, a significant percentage of that bodyweight lost is muscle mass. This is because ketogenic diets inhibit the muscle-sparing activity of mTOR, causing an increased use of muscle protein for energy— resulting in a loss of muscle."



    and then I quit reading.
    Most of the time, especially in this audience, the people trying a keto diet are juiced up and going into a show. That fact alone is going to sway this whole article.
    Now toss in the vague idea of "Ketogenic" in itself. If we are talking the 80% fat and 20% protein then maybe some of this holds water, but we all know this again will NOT apply to the
    audience in question. During an off season with plenty of calories from carbs and fats you can get away with about 1g of pro per pound of bodyweight. I doubt many here stick to that come contest time (when you'd run a keto diet). They are more likely going to be consuming 1.5-2.0g of protein per pound. This would bring the fat content down dramatically. Again, shifting the whole idea of this article.
    Now of course some will argue that with protein that high you won't be in keto as your body will convert some of that for energy. I disagree and think once again the audience needs to be kept in mind. They are not sedentary people sitting at a desk all day. They have more muscle than the average, they crush weights several times a week and I am sure hit plenty of cardio (especially since we are talking show prep, why else would we be talking keto)?

    I always hate these articles that hint or even directly say that keto is not good for building muscle. Who said it was? It is pretty damn good at holding onto muscle while dropping some pounds though. And isn't that why people use it anyway? (again, in this audience).
    Good points Joe
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    Barbarian macmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmikecox View Post
    Where do you get your fats from?
    Nuts,avocado's,olive-and-coconut-oil,fat fish, ...

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    ANIMAL naturalguy's Avatar
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    Evan convinced me to try Keto and I feel great on it
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    Quote Originally Posted by macmac View Post
    Nuts,avocado's,olive-and-coconut-oil,fat fish, ...
    Same. Also have some grass fed butter, eggs, steak chia seeds and nut butters. Be careful with almond butter and cashew nut butter as they can be addictive. I can get through a kilo in a week or two

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    Barbarian
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    Does ketosis start at 0.5 urine ketones?

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    ANIMAL naturalguy's Avatar
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    Here is an interesting study done on the long term effects and safety of a keto diet, this is the first one I've seen that is long term:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/
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    IFBB - PRO Evan Centopani's Avatar
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    I've run keto in the past and feel that it has MANY benefits. It COULD fall short in a couple areas for SOME bodybuilders but generally speaking, I think it is a very underrated way to diet. Not running keto at the moment but since my injury I cut carbs WAY down and pretty much removed grain entirely. I do get a good bit of carbs from papaya and pineapple as I feel their high enzyme content is worthwhile at the moment and I do have an occasional piece or two of whole grain rye bread as a treat along with the bone marrow that I've been eating every few days. I have to say that I, injury aside, I feel better than I did before. Looking forward, I think that going a paleo type route may be best for me. It does not forbid me from including carbs in my diet but grain is out and that forces me to rely more on proteins and fats for my calories. Just thinking.

  15. #15

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    I always functioned best on a keto style diet.

    Once my carbs ran super low (e.g.- 80gm daily) and my body got used to using fats for energy my energy levels went nuts. Found it pretty easy to get shredded too. But, for larger guys who compete I can imagine it's not as simple as the way I used to do it.
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    Juggernaut
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Centopani View Post
    I've run keto in the past and feel that it has MANY benefits. It COULD fall short in a couple areas for SOME bodybuilders but generally speaking, I think it is a very underrated way to diet. Not running keto at the moment but since my injury I cut carbs WAY down and pretty much removed grain entirely. I do get a good bit of carbs from papaya and pineapple as I feel their high enzyme content is worthwhile at the moment and I do have an occasional piece or two of whole grain rye bread as a treat along with the bone marrow that I've been eating every few days. I have to say that I, injury aside, I feel better than I did before. Looking forward, I think that going a paleo type route may be best for me. It does not forbid me from including carbs in my diet but grain is out and that forces me to rely more on proteins and fats for my calories. Just thinking.
    From a purely health perspective, low carb diets are clearly better for most people. I am reading a book called "Eat Fat get thin" now by Dr Mark Hyman. Not sure if you've heard of it? Clearly it's not aimed at bodybuilders but I feel most of us would benefit from eating a high amount of healthy fats. There is a lot of evidence to show that it's the refined carbs/sugars that are causing long term health issues. I eat hardly any gluten, so just need to stop the sugar binges now!

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    ANIMAL naturalguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jags93 View Post
    From a purely health perspective, low carb diets are clearly better for most people. I am reading a book called "Eat Fat get thin" now by Dr Mark Hyman. Not sure if you've heard of it? Clearly it's not aimed at bodybuilders but I feel most of us would benefit from eating a high amount of healthy fats. There is a lot of evidence to show that it's the refined carbs/sugars that are causing long term health issues. I eat hardly any gluten, so just need to stop the sugar binges now!
    Since I have been doing keto, I get no cravings for carbs and I am almost never hungry, it's weird
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