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Thread: No ones talking about the Porter, Fakhri Mubarak fight?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclepapaJohn View Post
    Great share. Thanks. Just had this convo the other night for being a white dude reporting on this instance using the "nigga" term being told I'm not allowed to use that word because of the color of my skin. I'm like shit I didn't give up my constitutional rights because someone else is offended that I use it yet an Africa-American can pop that shit off all day and produce rap music that my kids buy and blast going down the street and thats "socially acceptable". Actually said I should hum when I get to that word in songs I like that use it. She's a lawyer btw and said she'd rather defend in court the dude beating up the white dude for saying it than defend the rights of the white guy saying it. So per he constitution you should be able to beat people up use words you don't like? Asked what words white dudes get a free pass to beat up black dudes that used them and she had a hard time with that one.
    https://youtu.be/QO15S3WC9pg

    You always come off as a guy pretty set in his ways and thought.....not really open to new information or a different perspective so not much point in me writing a huge post about my personal feelings on the matter. However, taneihisi coates sums it up pretty well here


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    Quote Originally Posted by Womanthrower View Post
    That's not exactly unfounded when you've got guys like Richard Spencer smugly saying, "I'm not a white nationalist, I'm just a nationalist. " That shit's the new version of "I'm not a racist, but.."
    You do realize their are a lot of races represented in the US, right? Saying you're a nationalist means you're for the nation as a whole not a particular race. We're all tribal. Think about it, that's why people cheer for the Team that represents their city or state above another team. It's also why we have a national representative, state reps, and city reps. People will always have a tribe.
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    Thing is I can sound set in my ways taking opposite positions. Where there seems to be a given path I generally take that's for the sake of consistency. My minor was philosophy which is where my heart is, but the major was journalism and we are taught that if making editorial comments make strong forceful ones.

    As for someone or some group owning a word and punching others in the nose even killing people of another race that might use them that's as racist as hanging a black guy for dating a white woman in my book. If the term "nigga" is bad it should be acknowledged as bad by everyone and used by no one not used as some word a group flaunts as we can use this and if you do we are going to use it against you. That's asinine petty and unconstitutional bullshit. That's my forceful and pointed editorial about that, but I "understand" the "argument" on the other side.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigoso View Post
    https://youtu.be/QO15S3WC9pg

    You always come off as a guy pretty set in his ways and thought.....not really open to new information or a different perspective so not much point in me writing a huge post about my personal feelings on the matter. However, taneihisi coates sums it up pretty well here


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    IFBB - PRO Evan Centopani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Womanthrower View Post
    That's not exactly unfounded when you've got guys like Richard Spencer smugly saying, "I'm not a white nationalist, I'm just a nationalist. " That shit's the new version of "I'm not a racist, but.."
    Regarding the terms "nationalist" and "nationalism"; I realize they have become 4 letter word with racist implications. However, if you're an American nationalist, isn't it at least a little different than being a nationalist from pretty much any other country? America IS comprised of people from all over the world and the only native race/ethnic group is the native american indian which no one is assuming when the term "nationalist" is used. Anyone can make arguments for and against globalism. Why is it okay to be a globalist but not okay to be a nationalist? Of course, I can see how nationalism CAN give way to bigoted thoughts etc BUT isn't it possible that it can be "used responsibly" for the good of the nation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhands View Post
    lol at I didn't give up my constitutional rights because someone else is offended I use it. How fucking difficult is it to not use a word used to make an entire race feel like less than human for decades? Who gives a shit what words "we get to use" that black people can't and also who gives a shit if they use the word in rap songs. Good Lord you come across as that annoying middle aged white guy who won't shut the hell up about his conservative viewpoints. There are a couple at my gym among other places who are ranting about this kind of thing whenever someone will listen God bless the listeners souls.
    So you have something against me based on age? Oh shit let me complain about age discrimination!
    If "nigga" made an entire race feel less human it wouldn't be in 80% of the rap music put out.
    I get it though as the largest market for rap is white people based on purchase history so maybe indeed rappers don't care about as you say "making and entire race feel like less than human" as they want them dollars from their largest purchasing demographic, them racist white folks. Yet, we know a double-standard exists for the word where if we down can say you my nigga and kids of all races do it daily in schools across America.
    Further, to be African-American requires only a "drop" of it in your background and you can add that to your job application the same as you can claim you are whatever in todays confused "everyone has a right to that" liberal political ethos. Growing up I had folks saying I was black and/or adopted regularly. All good with me, but of course my color is too light like some mixed kids today that have to listen to claims they aren't really black, etc.
    As for the point of mentioning "constitutional law" is the matter of the "rule of law" in our Western Legal Underpinnings, wherein laws should be no respecters of person. Point of that is it shouldn't matter if we are of a particular group that chooses to be judged and judge others based on skin color or anything else. MLK sought a color-blind culture, which is what I'm in support of NOT the Malcolm X and Farrakhan separatist ideology that has taken hold in the predominant political culture of the Black Power Movement the last few decades. Treat everyone the same in all things. That's equality.
    Last edited by MusclepapaJohn; January 7th, 2018 at 11:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolsen View Post
    You do realize their are a lot of races represented in the US, right? Saying you're a nationalist means you're for the nation as a whole not a particular race. We're all tribal. Think about it, that's why people cheer for the Team that represents their city or state above another team. It's also why we have a national representative, state reps, and city reps. People will always have a tribe.
    I can agree with you that all people are tribal. I think the problem people have with the term "nationalist" is historically it has not included all groups. America is super diverse....but I think we can agree, look at the groups now that identify as nationalist and look at their ideals. When they say "American" they don't mean American citizen. The Richard Spencer's of the world want a white ethnostate. They describe America as a white country......when they say make America great again.....or take America back......I assume that's the back they're talking about. So the word automatically pushes most non white and some white peoples away


    Quote Originally Posted by MusclepapaJohn View Post
    Thing is I can sound set in my ways taking opposite positions. Where there seems to be a given path I generally take that's for the sake of consistency. My minor was philosophy which is where my heart is, but the major was journalism and we are taught that if making editorial comments make strong forceful ones.

    As for someone or some group owning a word and punching others in the nose even killing people of another race that might use them that's as racist as hanging a black guy for dating a white woman in my book. If the term "nigga" is bad it should be acknowledged as bad by everyone and used by no one not used as some word a group flaunts as we can use this and if you do we are going to use it against you. That's asinine petty and unconstitutional bullshit. That's my forceful and pointed editorial about that, but I "understand" the "argument" on the other side.
    Wow. It's like you didn't even watch the video, just made it completely about yourself. To use a reference in the video...if a group of girls are calling each other bitch jokingly in an earshot from you...do you just jump in with them and start calling them bitch? Do you go on about your constitutional rights being broken when they get upset about you using the word.

    You can use any word you like. I'm an almost 40 year old man with a family and a licensed medical professional.....I'm not going around fighting people for using a word and risking losing that. However, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.....it only means the state will not jail you for your words

    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Centopani View Post
    Regarding the terms "nationalist" and "nationalism"; I realize they have become 4 letter word with racist implications. However, if you're an American nationalist, isn't it at least a little different than being a nationalist from pretty much any other country? America IS comprised of people from all over the world and the only native race/ethnic group is the native american indian which no one is assuming when the term "nationalist" is used. Anyone can make arguments for and against globalism. Why is it okay to be a globalist but not okay to be a nationalist? Of course, I can see how nationalism CAN give way to bigoted thoughts etc BUT isn't it possible that it can be "used responsibly" for the good of the nation?
    Kind of the same as what I said to bolsen, in its purest form I don't think it has to be bad.....but historically has it ever been "used responsibly"? The saying "America first" is not bad in and of itself.....but I don't think the people yelling it include me or other minorities.....much less immigrants in that yell


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    Quote Originally Posted by bigoso View Post
    https://youtu.be/QO15S3WC9pg

    You always come off as a guy pretty set in his ways and thought.....not really open to new information or a different perspective so not much point in me writing a huge post about my personal feelings on the matter. However, taneihisi coates sums it up pretty well here


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    Listened to it, and looked him up. He's an idiot. A racist idiot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigoso View Post
    I can agree with you that all people are tribal. I think the problem people have with the term "nationalist" is historically it has not included all groups. America is super diverse....but I think we can agree, look at the groups now that identify as nationalist and look at their ideals. When they say "American" they don't mean American citizen. The Richard Spencer's of the world want a white ethnostate. They describe America as a white country......when they say make America great again.....or take America back......I assume that's the back they're talking about. So the word automatically pushes most non white and some white peoples away




    Wow. It's like you didn't even watch the video, just made it completely about yourself. To use a reference in the video...if a group of girls are calling each other bitch jokingly in an earshot from you...do you just jump in with them and start calling them bitch? Do you go on about your constitutional rights being broken when they get upset about you using the word.

    You can use any word you like. I'm an almost 40 year old man with a family and a licensed medical professional.....I'm not going around fighting people for using a word and risking losing that. However, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.....it only means the state will not jail you for your words



    Kind of the same as what I said to bolsen, in its purest form I don't think it has to be bad.....but historically has it ever been "used responsibly"? The saying "America first" is not bad in and of itself.....but I don't think the people yelling it include me or other minorities.....much less immigrants in that yell


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    I can understand what you're saying. I'm sure any and all white supremacists identify as nationalists. But, at the same time, I'd be willing to bet that most if not all of the people currently living here who hate this country and pray for it's downfall identity as globalists. For all people who identify as nationalists or globalists to be lumped in with the extremists at either end is ultimately unfair. IF the term "America first" TRULY means doing what's best for America first and foremost then I don't know how or why anyone who loves this country could be against it. In the end, maybe the terms are too loaded. Anyone would agree that America has to first do what is best for itself while still existing in the world and playing well with others. I don't know what the term is for the person who believes that. Of course, both nationalists and globalists would say "well that's me!" Hahahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigoso View Post
    Wow. It's like you didn't even watch the video, just made it completely about yourself. To use a reference in the video...if a group of girls are calling each other bitch jokingly in an earshot from you...do you just jump in with them and start calling them bitch? Do you go on about your constitutional rights being broken when they get upset about you using the word.
    You can use any word you like. I'm an almost 40 year old man with a family and a licensed medical professional.....I'm not going around fighting people for using a word and risking losing that. However, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.....it only means the state will not jail you for your words
    In the context of reporting on the efficacy of an African American and Arab American calling each other House Nigga and Sand Nigga and those saying as someone that looks white I shouldn't use the term I'll continue to use the term and elucidate the ridiculousness of medical professionals that suggest I'm a narrowminded old guy stuck in my ways that said medical professional might wish to consider the harm the word causes more generally for everyone hearing and reading it and be that advocate for change rather than merely stating I shouldn't use it because it is hurtful when someone that looks white uses it. Make it about more than someone like me that looks white as it doesn't hurt me regardless of my ethnicity.


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    Quote Originally Posted by bigoso View Post
    I can agree with you that all people are tribal. I think the problem people have with the term "nationalist" is historically it has not included all groups. America is super diverse....but I think we can agree, look at the groups now that identify as nationalist and look at their ideals. When they say "American" they don't mean American citizen. The Richard Spencer's of the world want a white ethnostate. They describe America as a white country......when they say make America great again.....or take America back......I assume that's the back they're talking about. So the word automatically pushes most non white and some white peoples away.


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    I see a larger issue with the word "nationalist". It's that people who aren't white - again picking a tribe but this time based on race - don't want to appear to be associated with a large group of whites for fear of upsetting their Tribe. I don't know where you grew up, but a lot of my friends said they had to sandbag their education for fear of being labeled as "white". These are black dudes who were sacred to get an education in their own communities because they would've been ostracized and attacked, jumped, robbed, etc. I do believe this also translates to how minorities vote. If you're a citizen who immigrated from Mexico you'd be shunned if you voted for Trump - even though the economy is booming right now for every single ethnic group. So out of fear, you vote Democratic because that's what your tribe does, and told you to do. The best part? After the election you can blame white racism for Trump even though minority groups prevented members of their group to vote for Trump. Every time I see a black politician in the Republican party other black folks call him an uncle Tom, a puppet, a race traitor, etc. So what you have Is a system that makes minorities afraid to say they agree with Trump, then says Trump is racist because no minorities agree with Trump. I know you've seen this happen either on social media, the news, or in real life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclepapaJohn View Post
    In the context of reporting on the efficacy of an African American and Arab American calling each other House Nigga and Sand Nigga and those saying as someone that looks white I shouldn't use the term I'll continue to use the term and elucidate the ridiculousness of medical professionals that suggest I'm a narrowminded old guy stuck in my ways that said medical professional might wish to consider the harm the word causes more generally for everyone that uses it and be that advocate for change rather than merely stating I shouldn't use it because it is hurtful when I use it. Make it about more than me as it doesn't hurt me regardless of my ethnicity.

    I've asked many of my friends to not use that word around me. I always get "it's our word, it's an endearing term for us". So I asked if they think that a black slave who was lynched and heard that word yelled at them right before they died would think it's a good word to call a friend. Stop disrespecting yourselves. Anyone who thinks that word is okay is contributing to the perpetual mental imprisonment of their own race. Be better than racist white folks think you are. Stop saying it.
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    Nationalist and Nationalism have been grouped together by the left leaning national news media, democrat party liberals, Hollywood liberal activists, university liberal professors and their students to paint the entire anti-globalist oriented idea of the nation-state as being racist. In an environment where the philosophies of MLK have been surmounted by the prevailing ideologies of Malcolm X and Farrakhan's black separatist agenda its a convenient political mythology. David Duke is not a reasonable symbol of the benefits of the nation-state as opposed to the Cosmopolitan globalist model that our country and other national governments particularly in Europe with the EU have embraced in the last several decades. During that same time period children have grown up and been taught a biased slant that portrayed the nation-state and nationalism as bad as opposed to the globalist panacea. I supported globalization during the Clinton Administration along with NAFTA, as we believed we were essentially exporting democratic values, but what followed was a rise in the influence of multi-national corporations that pit nations against nations for profits without any incumbent commitment to citizen agreement on morals and ethics versus merely capitalist commitment to deliver profits to shareholders. To claim nationalism is bad, evil and racist is to claim by extension that the nation-state is too and that globalism is the answer where in practice multinational panels of unelected bureaucrats make the decisions about all matters of governance as the national governments surrender sovereignty to them.

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    Like cracker, hillbilly, redneck...they can be terms of endearment too, but generally its considered an insult.
    Is it a fighting word if some non-white says it? Maybe, but to those who would fight about it they somewhat define themselves by such felonious actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by bolsen View Post
    I've asked many of my friends to not use that word around me. I always get "it's our word, it's an endearing term for us". So I asked if they think that a black slave who was lynched and heard that word yelled at them right before they died would think it's a good word to call a friend. Stop disrespecting yourselves. Anyone who thinks that word is okay is contributing to the perpetual mental imprisonment of their own race. Be better than racist white folks think you are. Stop saying it.

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    Juggernaut bigoso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusclepapaJohn View Post
    In the context of reporting on the efficacy of an African American and Arab American calling each other House Nigga and Sand Nigga and those saying as someone that looks white I shouldn't use the term I'll continue to use the term and elucidate the ridiculousness of medical professionals that suggest I'm a narrowminded old guy stuck in my ways that said medical professional might wish to consider the harm the word causes more generally for everyone hearing and reading it and be that advocate for change rather than merely stating I shouldn't use it because it is hurtful when someone that looks white uses it. Make it about more than someone like me that looks white as it doesn't hurt me regardless of my ethnicity.

    Again, you miss my point. I could give a fuck whether you use the word or not. Doesn't effect me. I only mention the medical professional part to state that I would not allow someone to trick me out of my freedom or state licensure by controlling my emotions with a word. Advocate for change? I have absolutely zero problem with black people using the word nigga. I said context matters to me. I mentioned when bill Mather used the word nigga....I personally wasn't offended.....I can't speak for all black people. The fact that you equate any race using nigga and fak calling a black person a house nigga makes me think you have no idea what it means

    It's particularly racist because in fak calling Lamar a house nigga here we have a person who isn't black telling someone who is black that they're not black enough. A non black person telling a black person they aren't fitting their image of what a black person should be.


    Quote Originally Posted by bolsen View Post
    I see a larger issue with the word "nationalist". It's that people who aren't white - again picking a tribe but this time based on race - don't want to appear to be associated with a large group of whites for fear of upsetting their Tribe. I don't know where you grew up, but a lot of my friends said they had to sandbag their education for fear of being labeled as "white". These are black dudes who were sacred to get an education in their own communities because they would've been ostracized and attacked, jumped, robbed, etc. I do believe this also translates to how minorities vote. If you're a citizen who immigrated from Mexico you'd be shunned if you voted for Trump - even though the economy is booming right now for every single ethnic group. So out of fear, you vote Democratic because that's what your tribe does, and told you to do. The best part? After the election you can blame white racism for Trump even though minority groups prevented members of their group to vote for Trump. Every time I see a black politician in the Republican party other black folks call him an uncle Tom, a puppet, a race traitor, etc. So what you have Is a system that makes minorities afraid to say they agree with Trump, then says Trump is racist because no minorities agree with Trump. I know you've seen this happen either on social media, the news, or in real life.
    You make some good points. Part of that is my story......I grew up in the hood in St. Louis. Was able to go to school outside of the hood early on.....got exposed to more stuff. Still lived in the hood though so got accused of acting white, talking white, wanting to be white etc.....so I know that story well. I believe that is a cultural issue that we need to fix but that's a whole other thread

    There is pressure to fit the tribe for all races I think. I voted Gary Johnson and I took a bit of shit for it. I don't believe we (black people) are or should be a monolith....but I'd be lying if I said I hadn't described a few black GOP as coons. If I can try and justify myself here.....i don't think there's anything wrong with a difference of opinion....i actually enjoy listening and talking to (intelligent) people who disagree with me. However when someone takes positions that are downright detrimental to there community and support known racists I take issue with that. I wouldn't call a black conservative a coon just because.....my beliefs kind of span the gamut from liberal to conservative

    I've certainly seen what you mention play out on social media. I'll abbreviate a story I saw play out. Through marriage I have some Mexican folks in my family. One of them made a post supporting trump.....other family came at him hard calling him names. They are logical residents.....now. Deal is they came illegally initially.....their mom was fleeing an abusive husband. They applied and received legal status under some law to protect them from the dad. So......you are a person who initially came here illegally and you're supporting a guy who's chanting "build that wall"? How would anyone not see him as a coconut or malinche (traitor)?


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    Quote Originally Posted by bigoso View Post
    Again, you miss my point. I could give a fuck whether you use the word or not. Doesn't effect me. I only mention the medical professional part to state that I would not allow someone to trick me out of my freedom or state licensure by controlling my emotions with a word. Advocate for change? I have absolutely zero problem with black people using the word nigga. I said context matters to me. I mentioned when bill Mather used the word nigga....I personally wasn't offended.....I can't speak for all black people. The fact that you equate any race using nigga and fak calling a black person a house nigga makes me think you have no idea what it means

    It's particularly racist because in fak calling Lamar a house nigga here we have a person who isn't black telling someone who is black that they're not black enough. A non black person telling a black person they aren't fitting their image of what a black person should be.

    Just to this point explain the part you left out, which is what does it mean to call an Arab-American a "Sand Nigga" regardless of the person doing the name calling? I may have missed it buried in some new course work taught at a university that claims African-Americans can use "sand nigga" against Arab-Americans and it not be equally as offensive as any sort of divisiveness a portion of the black community associate with the term "nigga" or "house nigga" (aka Uncle Tom, etc), but I actually don't know of any non-racist usage acceptable for "sand nigga."

    And you are all right by me of course and a great guy even where we disagree sometimes on specific things.

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    Lamar was responding, someone calls you a racist name you call them one back. Sand nigga is definitely a racist term. I took it to mean that they are seen as low like us but from the sand. If there's any other meaning I'm not aware


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    Is it the best PR move to merely be racist in-kind, call people short, mentally challenged, sand nigga etc versus sticking to the real issue that had something to do with self promotion, guru records of accomplishment, etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigoso View Post
    Sand nigga is definitely a racist term. I took it to mean that they are seen as low like us but from the sand.
    Low like us... seems rather self hating use of a racist term.
    Someone hurls a class oriented epithet at me and I hollar back well you are one too! Naw, that's not the way it was used although anything you follow with a "lol" is okay.

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