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Thread: I guess you can do the legs

  1. #103
    Barbarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by lifepulse View Post
    Every sport works like this (and I actually don't think of bodybuilding as a "sport", but still)-- it's pre-agreed-upon arbitrary rules, and there are often borderline cases that seem silly or confusing to the outsider. Every sport, you accept a certain amount of potential risk and harm (taking a hit)-- and we think of athletes as "hard working" (how hard they train, leading into the event), and that tends to color our perception or opinion of the athlete. In bodybuilding, it is more "honorable" to risk health with gear, than to use Synthol (which may be safer, or may have more health risks long-term that we don't yet know about, like renal failure). But because gear requires EFFORT to work its magic-- and Synthol does not-- gear is seen as "honorable" (what Evan was getting at).

    The attitude there is pretty consistent in the subculture. DNP is considered "a lazy man's drug, diet with no effort"-- and is looked down upon by almost every steroid-using bodybuilding.

    Using excessive amounts of T3, same thing-- viewed, for the most part, as "stupid", "needless", "lazy". These are words you seen thrown around frequently in the culture, on social media pages, etc.

    Insulin-- well, it still requires "effort" to activate (train-- and eat-- the two basic and fundamental components of bodybuilding). So it seems to be more "accepted" by the hardcore crowd. Though a bit more poo-pooed, because it seems to lead to shittier physiques (shittier conditioning, and distension), plus seems to carry a larger short-term risk with it.

    Diuretics are interesting-- can be seen as "honorable" (I think probably more so in the 90s), but also, potentially really friggin' risky-- and thus, many are fine with them, many are against them or "use absolute minimum".

    Point being, what Evan is saying, holds water. At least among the "old school" or "hardcore" sect (and I would put myself in that camp), Synthol and SEO and implants are seen as "cheating" in a sense, while gear is not (even though gear is explicitly against the rules). That's why people like Piana get no real respect, people like Ronnie do. They all abused their bodies, and they all sacrificed their bodies for the sport-- for the pursuit of money THROUGH the sport-- via gear. And Ronnie may have used some Synthol as well (calves). But dammit, Ronnie built his physique mainly on lifting (hard work), Piana built his on implanting (Synthol/SEO).

    It's not just the "end result" that we tend to evaluate, but also, how you got there. Get there through dirty or short-cutty means, we tend to not respect it as much. That goes for schooling-- gaining wisdom-- making money-- pretty much anything. Shouldn't be surprising that it holds in bodybuilding as well, in its own niche manner.

    -lifepulse
    I include taking a shit ton of gear as being against the founding priciples of physique culture.

    Bodybuild lost its way, justifying 5 grammes of steroids a week and 20iu's of growth with insulin daily is not nobel, sensible, healthy or intelligent.

    Limited drug use weeds out non athletic types who never had the physical attributes to compete in real sports. It was a lot better when talented athletes decided to lift to support their sport or for rehabilitation and as a by-product put on muscle.

    Watching these light bones guys today who don't have the physical attributes to tie the shoe laces of a real athlete and are nothing more than pumped up on drugs is pretty sad.........it has ruined bodybuilding

  2. #104
    Online Editor Ron Harris's Avatar
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    If you think about bb as being more like a beauty pageant based on muscles rather than a sport, the drug use doesn't seem quite so 'insulting.'
    Muscular Development Online Editor
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  3. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Beat View Post
    I include taking a shit ton of gear as being against the founding priciples of physique culture.

    Bodybuild lost its way, justifying 5 grammes of steroids a week and 20iu's of growth with insulin daily is not nobel, sensible, healthy or intelligent.

    Limited drug use weeds out non athletic types who never had the physical attributes to compete in real sports. It was a lot better when talented athletes decided to lift to support their sport or for rehabilitation and as a by-product put on muscle.

    Watching these light bones guys today who don't have the physical attributes to tie the shoe laces of a real athlete and are nothing more than pumped up on drugs is pretty sad.........it has ruined bodybuilding
    I definitely agree with the first two parts, and I think there are a lot of rational voices, who were promoting competing at a high level, who are now starting to really call for a push-back-- more common sense, getting rid of the extremes, for the very reasons you cite here.

    As for bodybuilding going back to being an extension of mere athletic training for other sports, rather than its own unique endeavor-- not sure we'll see the return of that, nor that we need to. Yes, competitions, as they're run, are boring as watching paint dry-- pretty much always have been, always will be. And that prevents it from being watchable and exciting, for most people, hence it remains niche. I think if they found a way to revamp how it is displayed-- either go back to also including strength components as well as physique components, OR, show more backstory with each athlete and how they trained for the event (like they do with certain other "sports", like American Ninja Warrior), it could be made exciting and appealing to watch.

    But no dispute to the larger overall point, that the sport has lost its way. Most who love it, would agree with that statement right now, I think.

    -lifepulse

  4. #106
    Behemoth King Shizzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan Centopani View Post
    I'd be willing to bet that if you tallied up the guys winning shows today, they wouldn't average much, if at all, above 240 lbs. Hell, of the top 10 at the 2017 Olympia, probably a good 50% or so were 240 or less. What happens when someone takes a bunch of drugs and doesn't exert themselves? Just the same, usually not much. I agree with you though that the gear makes the whole thing go round and without it, the sport as we know it is not the sport as we know it. I think we can all agree though that using gear still requires exertion, synthol and implants do not and again, to our original point/question, THAT is why they are not seen as being one and the same. To say they are is inaccurate.
    Evan, I will take your bold sentence to heart. When will you compete again?
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  5. #107
    Colemanesque Beti ona's Avatar
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    Basically, although bodybuilding is competitive and athletes "will do anything", there are ethical codes, and something that will never change: the end does not justify the means.

    That works for everything, even if you manage to cheat the rest, if you have not played correctly within what is agreed in a subculture or society, you will not find dignity and value in your achievements. You can laugh all day and count your dollars or your popularity, but misery will run inside your mind.
    «Humanity has been led by failures.»

  6. #108
    Colemanesque Beti ona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Beat View Post
    I include taking a shit ton of gear as being against the founding priciples of physique culture.

    Bodybuild lost its way, justifying 5 grammes of steroids a week and 20iu's of growth with insulin daily is not nobel, sensible, healthy or intelligent.

    Limited drug use weeds out non athletic types who never had the physical attributes to compete in real sports. It was a lot better when talented athletes decided to lift to support their sport or for rehabilitation and as a by-product put on muscle.

    Watching these light bones guys today who don't have the physical attributes to tie the shoe laces of a real athlete and are nothing more than pumped up on drugs is pretty sad.........it has ruined bodybuilding
    You have natural bodybuilding, sure there are associations where are athletic components involved.

    Bodybuilding since we associated it with Weider empire, it has become disconnected from the athletic or strengh tests, while the judges have always positively evaluated the aspect achieved with the drugs use.

    In the long term, I think the classic is an attempt to get rid of aspect achieved with tons of gear, slin, diuretics and SEO.
    «Humanity has been led by failures.»

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