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Thread: Citrulline Malate and German Volume Training

  1. #1
    Barbarian AChappell's Avatar
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    Default Citrulline Malate and German Volume Training

    Hi all,

    Check out our new publication on the popular bodybuilding supplement Citrulline Malate.

    Because I'm a bodybuilder myself we opted to use a bodybuilding protocol to test it's effectiveness. We used 8g of citrulline malate vs a placebo and a leg extension German Volume Training protocol (10 sets of 10 reps, 1 minute rest, 80% 1 RM). Recreational weight trainers, men and women 20 to 30 year old. On this occasion the Citrulline didn't seem to be any more effective than the placebo, however I'd caution that there are a number of limitations so I wouldn't rule out use of this product just yet. I would however suggest that anyone using this product consider a loading dosage in the range of 6 to 8 g per day. Maybe it works in advanced weight trainers and those who are more diligent with their diet, recovery and training.

    Abstract and full link to the paper is included below. Any questions I'm happy to answer them.

    https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-018-0245-8

    Abstract

    Background

    Use of supplements to aid performance is common practice amongst recreationally active individuals, including those without a sufficient evidence base. This investigation sought to assess whether acute supplementation with 8 g of citrulline malate (CM) (1.11: 1 ratio) would improve anaerobic performance.

    Methods

    A randomised double blind placebo control trial was employed, using a counterbalanced design. We recruited recreationally active men and women to take part in an isokinetic chair protocol, based on German Volume Training (GVT) whereby participants attempted to perform 10 sets of 10 repetitions against a force representing 70% of their peak concentric force.

    Results

    The number of repetitions achieved over the course of the GVT was 94.0 ± 7.9 and 90.9 ± 13.9 for placebo and CM respectively. There was no significant difference between the placebo and CM treatment for number of repetitions (P = 0.33), isometric (P = 0.60), concentric (P = 0.38), or eccentric (P = 0.65) peak force following the GVT. Total muscle soreness was significantly higher in the CM compared to the placebo treatment following the GVT protocol over 72 h (P = 0.01); although this was not accompanied by a greater workload/number of repetitions in the CM group.

    Conclusions

    We conclude that an acute dose of CM does not significantly affect anaerobic performance using an isokinetic chair in recreational active participants. Practical implications include precaution in recommending CM supplementation. Coaches and athletes should be aware of the disparity between the chemical analyses of the products reviewed in the present investigation versus the manufacturers’ claims.

    PhD Human Nutrition

  2. #2
    Behemoth Guvnor's Avatar
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    This is timed well with the new GAT Psychon that has 8.2g of Citrulline Malate. Creating a new 'woo' in the industry just as this study rolls out. Previous woo products went from 5g to 6g and now 8 appears to be the new must have 'clinical' dose.

    Also on the Suppversity site the chap there reposted it and a couple of guru's criticised the use of GVT. I thought it was quite fitting TBH as previous research alleged Citrulline Malate to be effective in later sets of 5-6 etc.

  3. #3
    Mass Monster buffguy's Avatar
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    Dymatize PreWO is clinically dosed with 8g of Citrulline Malate and yields sick PUMPS. Stick with tested, reputable brands.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by buffguy View Post
    Dymatize PreWO is clinically dosed with 8g of Citrulline Malate and yields sick PUMPS. Stick with tested, reputable brands.
    agree.. these supplements are for mainly natural athletes who actually lift weights not these guys on 5 grams of test who can't even complete 8 sets per bodypart or look like retards lifting weights..

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    Barbarian AChappell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guvnor View Post
    This is timed well with the new GAT Psychon that has 8.2g of Citrulline Malate. Creating a new 'woo' in the industry just as this study rolls out. Previous woo products went from 5g to 6g and now 8 appears to be the new must have 'clinical' dose.

    Also on the Suppversity site the chap there reposted it and a couple of guru's criticised the use of GVT. I thought it was quite fitting TBH as previous research alleged Citrulline Malate to be effective in later sets of 5-6 etc.

    I'm not sure I understand the criticism of GVT as a system to test it. It's purportedly a lactate buffering supplement, so we chose a repeated bout test. We felt it was a better system than the Wax et al 2015, and 2016 papers which compared total work over multiple exercises. It's also a system which bodybuilders use, so we felt if did improve your ability to do more reps you'd likely see it using a 100 rep system.

    I recall a number of years ago Dymatize products being outed by one of the supplement testing sites for underdosing protein powders. Sticking with reputable brands is easier said than done Buffguy.
    PhD Human Nutrition

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    Barbarian
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    i remember that about dymatize,hard to find someone who does not done that,personally i shop from myprotein and bulkpowders.i tested their protein and it was met the label claims.that was years ago,i dont know if they change anything recently.as for citr. it is in my intraworkout shake,but i dont think it makes any difference...perhaps a little more pump i think,nothing special.off topic do you train as natural full body,push/pull/legs/ or split?do you recomend train muscles 1 or 2 per week?

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    Behemoth Guvnor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alvertos View Post
    i remember that about dymatize,hard to find someone who does not done that,personally i shop from myprotein and bulkpowders.i tested their protein and it was met the label claims.that was years ago,i dont know if they change anything recently.as for citr. it is in my intraworkout shake,but i dont think it makes any difference...perhaps a little more pump i think,nothing special.off topic do you train as natural full body,push/pull/legs/ or split?do you recomend train muscles 1 or 2 per week?
    Did LOL..

    Apparently the worst offenders, right Andrew?

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    Barbarian
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    oh shit,any truth to this?if it is maybe i need to change!can you tell me more?

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    Colemanesque Beti ona's Avatar
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    Myprotein reduced the total content of the proteins without warning, so I felt cheated.

    The casein of bulkpowders with 90% protein is of good quality.
    «Humanity has been led by failures.»

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    Barbarian spasatel's Avatar
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    So there is no real proof, empirical data or study results that really shows that CM is beneficial for muscle building or benefitial for trainings? Maybe I misread the data in the OP?

    Sent from my VKY-L29 using Tapatalk

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beti ona View Post
    Myprotein reduced the total content of the proteins without warning, so I felt cheated.

    The casein of bulkpowders with 90% protein is of good quality.
    Fuck myprotein, had HORRIBLE customer service off them a few years ago. I still have the emails. Never bought off them again.
    MD Muscle News Weekly Ep. 29- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfFHUMbUHI8

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    Mass Monster Sandpig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spasatel View Post
    So there is no real proof, empirical data or study results that really shows that CM is beneficial for muscle building or benefitial for trainings? Maybe I misread the data in the OP?

    Sent from my VKY-L29 using Tapatalk
    For muscle building, probably not.

    But for guys like myself who chase the pump, it's one of the best products on the market.

  13. #13
    Behemoth Guvnor's Avatar
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    I was referring to the Citrulline Malate content in their pre workouts.

    not only are the labels advertising well under the going 'norm' - apparently they test quite a bit under the label directions too!

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    Colemanesque Beti ona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giles View Post
    Fuck myprotein, had HORRIBLE customer service off them a few years ago. I still have the emails. Never bought off them again.
    Yes, I sent tons of emails warning that the labels did not match the information on the web. They said that they would transfer my complaint to another place, but I never got an answer.

    On another occasion I placed an order, but then canceled it. More than a month later they send me the package and charge me the money.
    «Humanity has been led by failures.»

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beti ona View Post
    Yes, I sent tons of emails warning that the labels did not match the information on the web. They said that they would transfer my complaint to another place, but I never got an answer.

    On another occasion I placed an order, but then canceled it. More than a month later they send me the package and charge me the money.
    Wankers!
    MD Muscle News Weekly Ep. 29- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfFHUMbUHI8

  16. #16
    Barbarian spasatel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpig View Post
    For muscle building, probably not.

    But for guys like myself who chase the pump, it's one of the best products on the market.
    But is there any proof/case study result.that show that at least it helps for pumping blood to your muscles while training?
    Or you just feel like it works for you?

    Sent from my VKY-L29 using Tapatalk

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by spasatel View Post
    But is there any proof/case study result.that show that at least it helps for pumping blood to your muscles while training?
    Or you just feel like it works for you?

    Sent from my VKY-L29 using Tapatalk
    i plan on taking 10g and performing a few studies on some girls.. to see the overall blood rush to the pelvic region and biceps...
    i like to flex my biceps in the mirror when i'm banging a girl in the ass

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