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Thread: Coaches who advise mega doses...discussions need to be started, accountability is now required

  1. #86
    Online Editor Ron Harris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard View Post
    Back in 2008, I was shocked to hear the stuff a national level figure competitor told me she took.
    The drugs alone were a shock , never mind all the other $ she spent on contest swimsuits to prep gurus.
    .
    The ironic thing was, for all she spent, her physique didn't look much different, on stage, from previous years.
    I have spoken to LOCAL Figure girls who wouldn't dream of competing without being on GH.
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  2. #87
    Forum Judge Howard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Harris View Post
    I have spoken to LOCAL Figure girls who wouldn't dream of competing without being on GH.
    Sadly this is true. When I judged , I often got asked contest prep questions in the gym.
    What amazed me was the look of confusion and disbelief when I'd advise more cardio or stricter diet for contest prep.
    The next question was usually; " What about doing "X" drug ?"
    I saw a star, reached for it...and MISSED

  3. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giles View Post
    Mate, some of the protocols I’ve seen and been told sent a shiver down my spine!
    What are the protocols.. If we don't talk about it how do we know what is high. You always here about someone doing more and leads you to think you're really not doing much. Is it 1g, 2g, 5g, 10g or more? If people don't share reference ranges how do we know?

  4. #89
    Online Editor Ron Harris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JordanWFitness View Post
    What are the protocols.. If we don't talk about it how do we know what is high. You always here about someone doing more and leads you to think you're really not doing much. Is it 1g, 2g, 5g, 10g or more? If people don't share reference ranges how do we know?
    2 grams a week is the line for me, even for prep. I guess if youíre a pro and competing at 250+ pounds, 3 grams is reasonable for prep cycles. I canít see why anyone would possibly need more than that.


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    Behemoth nocobb3203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Harris View Post
    I have spoken to LOCAL Figure girls who wouldn't dream of competing without being on GH.
    Again it's people competing and trying to beat their genetics. I get it GH makes things easier but if you cant show up with a decent and competitive physique without or large doses then you are doing it to yourself just so you can say you compete.

  6. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocobb3203 View Post
    Again it's people competing and trying to beat their genetics. I get it GH makes things easier but if you cant show up with a decent and competitive physique without or large doses then you are doing it to yourself just so you can say you compete.
    I sound like a broken record, but drugs and especially GH makes the most difference at the Masters level. By the time guys are over 40, if they had great genetics they would have turned pro long before. Masters tends to be full of guys with average genetics who train their asses off and who can afford the very best PED's and coaches.
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  7. #92

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    Forgive me if this is an ignorant question, I have been drug free my entire life so I have no personal experience to rely on. If many/most fans of the sport think the quality of physiques were better in the late 80s and early 90s and much of the blame has been placed on the chemical approach used, why wouldn't aspiring amateurs return to the protocols used back then? The only thing I can think of is that the quality of what is available to most people is not what it was back then, in addition to the fact that often freaky, veiny mass simply overwhelms the smaller but more refined physique.

    Not to derail the overall objective of this thread as it is a very valid one, but just something i have wondered about often as I have watch the sport and its physiques "progress" over the years

  8. #93
    Online Editor Ron Harris's Avatar
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    Most of the fans who support the sport today are fans of the huge, freaky look, that super round fullness that things like insulin and SEO helps create.
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  9. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by JordanWFitness View Post
    What are the protocols.. If we don't talk about it how do we know what is high. You always here about someone doing more and leads you to think you're really not doing much. Is it 1g, 2g, 5g, 10g or more? If people don't share reference ranges how do we know?
    Even “3g a week” doesn’t mean that much these days with so much polypharmacy going on. These guys use more exotic stuff these days too...not just peptides but some steroids like methyltren which is dosed in micrograms, or superdrol injected at 10 or 20mg twice daily, drugs that weren’t available previously. If you’re using anadrol at the end of prep for fullness, and you swap 150mg a day of that for 20mg of superdrol, you just dropped a gram a week of gear. And a bunch of subcutaneous water, but the point is that you’re using a full 1000mg of steroids less per week.

    Also, this is unfortunately a discussion that has no end. Even if the coaches started to advise more reasonable protocols, bodybuilders just can’t hold on to a “less is more” mindset, ever really. They will always do more if they think someone else is doing more.

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    Freak of Nature thegoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cochran View Post
    Even “3g a week” doesn’t mean that much these days with so much polypharmacy going on. These guys use more exotic stuff these days too...not just peptides but some steroids like methyltren which is dosed in micrograms, or superdrol injected at 10 or 20mg twice daily, drugs that weren’t available previously. If you’re using anadrol at the end of prep for fullness, and you swap 150mg a day of that for 20mg of superdrol, you just dropped a gram a week of gear. And a bunch of subcutaneous water, but the point is that you’re using a full 1000mg of steroids less per week.

    Also, this is unfortunately a discussion that has no end. Even if the coaches started to advise more reasonable protocols, bodybuilders just can’t hold on to a “less is more” mindset, ever really. They will always do more if they think someone else is doing more.
    Most pros aren't fucking around with mythltren or ment. At least in the US. That shit is getting hyped on line and in groups.

    Let's be real 2 grams to about 2500 is standard during a prep. It great gear is accessible the number is lower. As most gear out there is undosed.

    As for superdrol that shit beats you up. It's amazing for lean gains though. I personally would recommend its use at the end of prep. If a bombs are used to hold fullness the superdrol is going to add mass in the calorie deficit and it's too toxic and would interfere with losing those lost pounds because of its tendency to increase cortisol levels. A combo of of winny and anavar would be a far better and safer choice. Add some halo for hardness and drying out. Halo and superdrol together would be far too liver toxic.

    Last weeks before a show depending on the person test levels will be dropped. Tren ace and mast at 100 each eod. Ball park 50mg var and 50 winny daily. Plus 20 to 30mgs of halo.

  11. #96

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    I have been coaching for a number of years now,and i will throw these out there for some typical cycles :

    Beginner / Novice

    10 Weeks

    500mg Test
    250mg Nand Or Bold
    30mg Dbol ( 1st 4 weeks )

    Intermediate 225lbs + Guys

    8 Weeks

    750mg - 1000mg Test
    500mg Nand or Bold
    50mg Dbol or Oxy ( 1st 4 weeks )

    Then switch to

    6 Weeks

    100mg Tren Ace / 100mg Test Prop / 100mg Mast Prop EOD
    50mg Anavar ED
    2-4iu GH ed

    Advanced guys with many years of training under their belt - 230lbs - 250lbs

    "Typical" Contest Cycle

    10 weeks

    1000mg Test
    500mg Bold
    300mg NPP
    50mg Dbol or Oxy ( 1st 4 weeks )
    GH 2-4iu Day

    Switch to 10 weeks of :

    150mg Tren Ace / 150mg Test Prop / 150mg Mast Prop M / W / F
    500mg Primo / Wk
    2-4iu GH day
    50mg Anavar ( Final 6 weeks )
    20mg Halo ( Final 2 weeks )
    GH 2-4iu Day

    AI ran as needed

    Proviron added last 8 weeks at 50mg / day

    Clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off throughout cycle ( tapered up to 120-160mcg )

    T3 ... Rarely use it
    Last edited by Anth Bailes; May 21st, 2019 at 08:28 PM. Reason: Spelling

  12. #97

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    That’s more like it ^^^^

    No-one on this planet that is human needs to take ANY MORE than that! The body can’t process anything higher dosage wise and if you do you’re just screaming out for more side effects and serious health issues.
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  13. #98
    Behemoth harmankardon1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoon View Post
    Most pros aren't fucking around with mythltren or ment. At least in the US. That shit is getting hyped on line and in groups.
    agreed thats just hype

  14. #99
    Behemoth harmankardon1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anth Bailes View Post
    I have been coaching for a number of years now,and i will throw these out there for some typical cycles :

    Beginner / Novice

    10 Weeks

    500mg Test
    250mg Nand Or Bold
    30mg Dbol ( 1st 4 weeks )

    Intermediate 225lbs + Guys

    8 Weeks

    750mg - 1000mg Test
    500mg Nand or Bold
    50mg Dbol or Oxy ( 1st 4 weeks )

    Then switch to

    6 Weeks

    100mg Tren Ace / 100mg Test Prop / 100mg Mast Prop EOD
    50mg Anavar ED
    2-4iu GH ed

    Advanced guys with many years of training under their belt - 230lbs - 250lbs

    "Typical" Contest Cycle

    10 weeks

    1000mg Test
    500mg Bold
    300mg NPP
    50mg Dbol or Oxy ( 1st 4 weeks )
    GH 2-4iu Day

    Switch to 10 weeks of :

    150mg Tren Ace / 150mg Test Prop / 150mg Mast Prop M / W / F
    500mg Primo / Wk
    2-4iu GH day
    50mg Anavar ( Final 6 weeks )
    20mg Halo ( Final 2 weeks )
    GH 2-4iu Day

    AI ran as needed

    Proviron added last 8 weeks at 50mg / day

    Clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off throughout cycle ( tapered up to 120-160mcg )

    T3 ... Rarely use it

    This is nice, similar to what i found effective at these BW's.

    I always thought if your 190 and start at a 1500-2g cycle where do you have to go from there in future cycles as you attempt to progress......

    By going so high so early imo you desensitize yourself to large dosages when you are still small and the smaller dosing will get it done. Smart progression of dosing saves the higher dose cycles for when your bigger and the gains are harder to come by.

  15. #100
    Forum Judge Howard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bestia View Post
    Forgive me if this is an ignorant question, I have been drug free my entire life so I have no personal experience to rely on. If many/most fans of the sport think the quality of physiques were better in the late 80s and early 90s and much of the blame has been placed on the chemical approach used, why wouldn't aspiring amateurs return to the protocols used back then? The only thing I can think of is that the quality of what is available to most people is not what it was back then, in addition to the fact that often freaky, veiny mass simply overwhelms the smaller but more refined physique.

    Not to derail the overall objective of this thread as it is a very valid one, but just something i have wondered about often as I have watch the sport and its physiques "progress" over the years
    Most sports enforce basic safety standards and they tend to grow in popularity.
    For example, boxing used to bare knuckles brawling until it became governed by rules and equipment ( gloves).

    MMA began as out law fighting with literally no holds barred.
    To get it into the mainstream, they added in basic rules and equipment.
    Now , it's a big media event.

    With bodybuilding , we're allowing the fans and athletes to decide the rules ( or lack thereof).
    in simple terms, the inmates are running the asylum LOL.
    I saw a star, reached for it...and MISSED

  16. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoon View Post
    Most pros aren't fucking around with mythltren or ment. At least in the US. That shit is getting hyped on line and in groups.

    There are two well known coaches in the US who prescribe both. Probably more. And maybe I misread what you said there, but superdrol inhibits 11hsb and prevents cortisol conversion, lowering cortisol. And the liver toxicity is an issue like all methylated orals, greatly reduced by lowering the SD dose and using it as an injectable preparation. It makes you feel like shit because of the anti-cortisol properties. Same as cytadren. IFBB Pros in the US use cytadren too.

    edit: It's funny just the other day a lesser known coach (he has only a few pros, mostly NPC bodybuilders and classic guys), told me the same thing. Only board geeks and others on social media talk about these exotic drugs but IFBB Pros don't use them. Funny how the big boys at the top don't share what they do with the wannabes.
    Last edited by cochran; May 22nd, 2019 at 08:07 AM.

  17. #102
    Freak of Nature thegoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cochran View Post
    There are two well known coaches in the US who prescribe both. Probably more. And maybe I misread what you said there, but superdrol inhibits 11hsb and prevents cortisol conversion, lowering cortisol. And the liver toxicity is an issue like all methylated orals, greatly reduced by lowering the SD dose and using it as an injectable preparation. It makes you feel like shit because of the anti-cortisol properties. Same as cytadren. IFBB Pros in the US use cytadren too.

    edit: It's funny just the other day a lesser known coach (he has only a few pros, mostly NPC bodybuilders and classic guys), told me the same thing. Only board geeks and others on social media talk about these exotic drugs but IFBB Pros don't use them. Funny how the big boys at the top don't share what they do with the wannabes.
    I know who they are as well. Most dont play that shit. They are always people who go outside that lines.

    Granted superdrol theoretically lowers cortisol. It's the other factors that raise them the nose bleeds and feeling like your insides have been beaten up. I've run SD off season and felt like dog shit without any other orals. Blinding headaches at that point in prep the body is fried as is. To stay full occasional humalog is better. Looking flat high carbs pre workout and hit the pen for better go glycogen use and storage.

    If igf one was timed right fullness shouldn't be hard to correct

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