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Thread: What's the cause of this gynecomastia?

  1. #18
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    i'm done with you Van.
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  2. #19
    Forum Leader: Performance, Nattie, Training bodyfx2's Avatar
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    Well, from those pics it DOES appear that he has gyno. That is NOT just a hard nipple! That said, there are many guys that have "natural" gyno, that has nothing to do with taking exogenous hormones. It is very possible this is the case here. Obviously only HE knows for sure whether he is natural, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt unless PROVEN otherwise.

    Also, yes, he is looking freaking awesome...natural or not!
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  3. #20
    Nobody kh300's Avatar
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    so most natural federations are 1 year drug free. why do i always hear about these naturals always taking years off in between competitions? is it not possible for someone to juice, then take a year off and compete? it is possible so why are we not allowed to question ones usage or past usage?

  4. #21
    Spotter joshdickinson's Avatar
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    1 year???

    Out here is Oz it is between 5 and 7 years drug free to be eligable for all natural feds
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  5. #22
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    wnbf is 7 years which is where kurt competes
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  6. #23
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodyfx2
    Well, from those pics it DOES appear that he has gyno. That is NOT just a hard nipple! That said, there are many guys that have "natural" gyno, that has nothing to do with taking exogenous hormones. It is very possible this is the case here. Obviously only HE knows for sure whether he is natural, but he deserves the benefit of the doubt unless PROVEN otherwise.

    Also, yes, he is looking freaking awesome...natural or not!
    eric, look at his other pics bro
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  7. #24
    Nobody kh300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8flexed
    wnbf is 7 years which is where kurt competes
    if thats the case, you have to believe him.

  8. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by str8flexed
    eric, look at his other pics bro
    I think you should look at the other pics. Look closer.

    Although I'll give Kurt the benefit of a doubt I still think it's probably not pubertal gyno. Gyno in bodybuilders was pretty much nonexistant in the pre-steroid and early steroid era. Additionally this is not the type of breast development that fat guys get. Man-boobs usually go away when you lose weight. Maybe he has liver disease or an estrogen secreting tumor?

    PHYSIOLOGIC GYNECOMASTIA
    Gynecomastia, breast development in males, can occur normally during three phases of life. The first occurs shortly after birth in both males and females. This is caused by the high levels of estradiol and progesterone produced by the mother during pregnancy, which stimulates newborn breast tissue. It can persist for several weeks after birth and can cause mild breast discharge called "witch's milk" (42).Puberty marks the second situation in which gynecomastia can occur physiologically. In fact, up to 60% of boys have detectable gynecomastia by age 14. Although it is mostly bilateral, it can occur unilaterally, and usually resolves within 3 years of onset (42).
    Interestingly, in early puberty, the pituitary gland releases gonadotropins in order to stimulate testicular production of testosterone mostly at nighttime. Estrogens, however, rise throughout the entire day. Some studies have shown that a decreased androgen to estrogen ratio exists in boys with pubertal gynecomastia when compared with boys who do not develop gynecomastia (34). Furthermore, another study showed increased aromatase activity in the skin fibroblasts of boys with gynecomastia. Thus, the mechanism by which pubertal gynecomastia occurs may be due to either decreased production of androgens or increased aromatization of circulating androgens, thus increasing the estrogen to androgen ratio (29).
    The third age range in which gynecomastia is frequently seen is during older age (>60 years). Although the exact mechanisms by which this can occur have not been fully elucidated, evidence suggests that it may result from increased peripheral aromatase activity secondary to the increase in total body fat, coupled with mild hypogonadism associated with aging. For instance, investigators have shown increased urinary estrogen levels in obese individuals, and have demonstrated aromatase expression in adipose tissue (36). Thus, like the gynecomastia of obesity, the gynecomastia of aging may partly result from increased aromatase activity, causing increased circulating estrogen levels (7). Moreover, not only does total body fat increase with age, but there may be an increase in aromatase activity in the adipose tissue already present, increasing circulating estrogens even further. Lastly, SHBG increases with age in men. Since SHBG binds estrogen with less affinity than testosterone, the bioavailable estradiol to bioavailable testosterone ratio may increase in the obese older male.
    http://www.endotext.org/male/male14/male14.htm

  9. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Bilderass
    I know tons of heavy juicers with much worse builds than Kurt. I'm sure you do too. And Kurt is stronger on deadlifts than the vast majority of enhanced competitive bodybuilders. So I don't know why you think this guy would for sure be much bigger than this if he had experimented with hormones. You know that there are different levels of juicing, from very short and light oral cycles to year round oral and injectable stacks. For example, Kurt could have done a few 2-3 week cycles of orals (even OTC orals like M1T or Superdrol) which then triggered gyno formation. He doesn't look like a current, heavy juicer to me, all I'm saying is that he has a tell-tale sign of having used steroids in the past.
    Please, Now your just talkin out your ass. As Layne said, have you thought maybe he just works harder than most? And 605 x 4 on the DL is not unthinkable. I've personally done 495 x 3, traditional style DL and I'm nowhere near the level that Kurt is, and I'm also 20 years old.

    So, take your antics somewhere else we don't want to hear em.

  10. #27

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    I see no reason to attack Van. I don't think Van is trolling. That indeed does look like gyno to me, but I am no doctor. Van you said...

    Gyno in bodybuilders was pretty much nonexistant in the pre-steroid and early steroid era.
    No bodybuilder in the pre-steroid era, ever got their bodyfat as low as Kurt has in these photos.

    How did Kurt get his bodyfat that low and look that hard without any drugs?
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  11. #28
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siouxcountry
    I see no reason to attack Van. I don't think Van is trolling. That indeed does look like gyno to me, but I am no doctor. Van you said...



    No bodybuilder in the pre-steroid era, ever got their bodyfat as low as Kurt has in these photos.

    How did Kurt get his bodyfat that low and look that hard without any drugs?
    he worked his ass off, dieted for over 6 months

    I know it's tough to understand, but natural bodybuilding has taken conditioning to the next level, we can't get ridiculously huge so we hang our hat on conditioning.

    Look at Brian Whitacre, brian trained with Kurt for 2 years, and they both get in similar condition. but I guess it's because they are both on drugs right?

    I get so tired of when guys look awsome they are automatically on drugs, but when they look normal they are just stick figures. guess you can't make people happy in natural bodybuilding either

    btw, that pic of brian is him 4 weeks out... he was even leaner at the show
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  12. #29

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    I'm not a hater, Layne. I appreciate the sacrifice you top naturals endure. How many calories do you average a day to get in that unbelievable conditioning? Brian is a walking anatomy chart!
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  13. #30
    Forum Leader: Performance, Nattie, Training bodyfx2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8flexed
    eric, look at his other pics bro
    Yeah, it is true that in some pics you don't see it. But even if it is there, that does not make him a drug user. I am accused of using drugs and know I am natty for life, which is why I certainly must give him the benefit of the doubt...as well as admit that there is no sign of gyno in most pics.
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  14. #31
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by siouxcountry
    I'm not a hater, Layne. I appreciate the sacrifice you top naturals endure. How many calories do you average a day to get in that unbelievable conditioning? Brian is a walking anatomy chart!
    I think brian went down to 1900-2100, the difference between him and others is he dieted for 24 weeks and he was honest with himself about his conditioning. Most people who aren't ready 4 weeks out say that "oh i just got to drop water" bullshit. You are either shredded or you aren't, Brian kept going because each week he knew he could get leaner even though everyone around him was telling him that he was ready.
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  15. #32
    Spotter Big Poppa S's Avatar
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    Both of them got some wicked conditioning, damn, that's the kind of conditioning I need!!!! I'm dieting for roughly 20 weeks for my first show this year, I hope to come in completely diced. Layne do you know what BF% those guys were at??
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  16. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by bodyfx2
    Also, yes, he is looking freaking awesome...natural or not!
    Deffinitly... drugs or not, who cares - he is peeled and looks good.

  17. #34
    The Physique Architect str8flexed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Poppa S
    Both of them got some wicked conditioning, damn, that's the kind of conditioning I need!!!! I'm dieting for roughly 20 weeks for my first show this year, I hope to come in completely diced. Layne do you know what BF% those guys were at??
    i don't think either of them paid attention to calipers

    I've known plenty of guys who said that calipers put them at 2% that looked like shit.

    moral of story, if you don't look as peeled as those 2 and you are prepping for a show... you need to keep dieting
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