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Thread: FIBER TYPE TRAINING EXPLAINED

  1. #52
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasebny View Post
    im a little confused. ur saying that you do12-15 reps including rest pauses on all ur sets with continous contractions and explosive concentric movement correct? Then how is this training to the funcitionality of each body type, if as u say it u can hold a bag of groceries with your bicep for an extended period of time but can only throw punches (tris and shoulders) for a short amount of time? Im a little confused, r u saying that all bodyparts have the same slow and fast twitch ratio? I think u need to clear up your analogy slightly if its no trouble. Ur analogy makes it sound as if u want to train biceps longer, and keep shoulder tri workouts short and explosive.
    Exactly. Chest shoulders tris will fail at 8 to 10 with explosive, short, 1/2 rep from chest maybe lasting 10 seconds then go on with my rest pauses as explained which will take me into about 40 seconds. (INTESITY OF INITIAL CONTRACTION). Biceps will fail at 10 or 12 with FULL range of motion from complete extention to bar to neck. Because of this form it will take about 30 to 40 seconds then go on with my rest pauses as directed which will take me into about 75 seconds (DURATION OF STRESS)

    Also you would superset and do negatives for biceps but very rarely chest obviously.
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    Sounds like the generally accepted "time under tension" zones for fast and slow twitch fibres.
    Tipsta, it sounds like you're saying a bodybuilder should not do sets of 4-6 reps. However, if you never lift weight that is too heavy to do 10 reps, aren't you missing out on the fast twitch stimulation that comes from a bigger load?
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    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymdog View Post
    Sounds like the generally accepted "time under tension" zones for fast and slow twitch fibres.
    Tipsta, it sounds like you're saying a bodybuilder should not do sets of 4-6 reps. However, if you never lift weight that is too heavy to do 10 reps, aren't you missing out on the fast twitch stimulation that comes from a bigger load?
    Fast twitch stimulation happens by moving the weight explosivlely and very fast. How fast will you explode on a weight you cant even lift 4 times? Do you really think 4 to 6 contractions is going to do much? I suggest failing at 8 to 10 at incredibly fast and explosive contractions then resting for a few seconds maybe 10 to 20 and doing a few more which will be much more of an intense workload but you will be able to still fire the muscle quite quickly. Your way will only stimulate the slow twitch fibers in a muscle since the speed will be slower in motion. Make sense?

    This is the type of training that I'm talking about and this was the reason he evolved into a bigger and far more superior bodybuilder than anyone else did. Remember they all do the same drugs and so do all the THOUSANDS of people but only an elite few evolve as he did. The training is what made him, not the drugs.

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    Spotter gymdog's Avatar
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    Makes sense indeed. Would you recommend this kind of set for beginners?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsta View Post
    Exactly. Chest shoulders tris will fail at 8 to 10 with explosive, short, 1/2 rep from chest maybe lasting 10 seconds then go on with my rest pauses as explained which will take me into about 40 seconds. (INTESITY OF INITIAL CONTRACTION). Biceps will fail at 10 or 12 with FULL range of motion from complete extention to bar to neck. Because of this form it will take about 30 to 40 seconds then go on with my rest pauses as directed which will take me into about 75 seconds (DURATION OF STRESS)

    Also you would superset and do negatives for biceps but very rarely chest obviously.
    Whats up Tipsta, sorry i havent gotten back to you, have been tied up with the Holidays, I have a terrible cold its really holding me back.
    You explained chest tris shoulders and bis but how should we work back and legs?

    I will send you my calculated diet soon.
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    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymdog View Post
    Makes sense indeed. Would you recommend this kind of set for beginners?
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    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerod021 View Post
    Whats up Tipsta, sorry i havent gotten back to you, have been tied up with the Holidays, I have a terrible cold its really holding me back.
    You explained chest tris shoulders and bis but how should we work back and legs?

    I will send you my calculated diet soon.
    Legs and Back are very similar to your chest shouilders and tris except they can explode for a longer period of time so the rep range is increased to fail at 12 instead of failing at 8. Rest pause obviously to 15 to 17
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    Dedicated Noob jdspinna's Avatar
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    Tipsta.

    Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread but, what are your thoughts on the speed of the eccentric portion of the rep? Obviously it should be a controlled contraction but what portion of the negative should be accountable for total time under tension and does it differ per muscle group?

    There is a lot of research that indicates the eccentric portion of the rep is important because of hormone, chemical related responses in the body as well as causing more microtrauma than concentric so I wondered what your thoughs were on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdspinna View Post
    Tipsta.

    Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread but, what are your thoughts on the speed of the eccentric portion of the rep? Obviously it should be a controlled contraction but what portion of the negative should be accountable for total time under tension and does it differ per muscle group?

    There is a lot of research that indicates the eccentric portion of the rep is important because of hormone, chemical related responses in the body as well as causing more microtrauma than concentric so I wondered what your thoughs were on this.
    I don't have the link, but I remember an MD article a while back reporting on an experiment that found more fibres fire with a fast negative then a slow one. It might have been with a weight to heavy to do a concentric phase however, I can't remember.
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    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdspinna View Post
    Tipsta.

    Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread but, what are your thoughts on the speed of the eccentric portion of the rep? Obviously it should be a controlled contraction but what portion of the negative should be accountable for total time under tension and does it differ per muscle group?

    There is a lot of research that indicates the eccentric portion of the rep is important because of hormone, chemical related responses in the body as well as causing more microtrauma than concentric so I wondered what your thoughs were on this.
    Many people get this wrong. When the ECCENTRIC motion or the negative, as most know, is spoken about it is not spoken in reference to the positive motion as most think. Meaning they are not done in the same exercise. Negatives are done by themselves as a set and has very little benefit, as you may have read, with most muscle groups except the biceps since they are made up of fibers that RESIST weight for long periods of time. As you can see a negative would work well here. When training your fast twitch fibers it is most important to INITIALLY contract with great force and the eccentric motion plays very little role in developing these fibers.

    Be honest, when was the last time you saw a person or video of a pro or amateur doing negatives. For me, NEVER. I think you know, as do I, why. They do not perform in the real world as they do on paper nor do they calculate on paper or in the real world for any other muscle, as I said before, the bicep
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymdog View Post
    I don't have the link, but I remember an MD article a while back reporting on an experiment that found more fibres fire with a fast negative then a slow one. It might have been with a weight to heavy to do a concentric phase however, I can't remember.
    I personally do not benefit from negatives except tendon damage. Thats just me.
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    Just so we're totally clear, you reccommend an eccentric phase that's just as quick as the concentric?

    On a side note, I tried this approach (exploding up, not locking out, quickly down), last time I did squats. I used a lower weight than usual of course, and I must say I loved (hated) the way it felt. My legs seemed to pump up faster than normal, and felt really springy during the set. It seems to me this kind of set isn't a good idea if you don't have your ego in check, as it's easy to see someone hurting themselves if they were to go too heavy.

    BTW, anyone else remember the article I mentioned about more fibres being stimulated with a quick negative phase? It may have just been a quick eccentric phase with a medium weight, which would certainly support Tipsta's arguments.
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  13. #64

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    Great thread man. Learned alot already.

    My question is with a body building reutine as you've mentioned how and where in the reutine would you recomend useing power movements such as dead lift, flat bench, clean, clean and jerk and squat? Do you feel these should be done as in power lifting like one rep maxes to build power that can be used in other areas and execises in your reutine? Or should one do higher rep ranges and less weight for a bodybuilding reutine?

    Thanks for all the info.

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    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymdog View Post
    Just so we're totally clear, you reccommend an eccentric phase that's just as quick as the concentric?

    On a side note, I tried this approach (exploding up, not locking out, quickly down), last time I did squats. I used a lower weight than usual of course, and I must say I loved (hated) the way it felt. My legs seemed to pump up faster than normal, and felt really springy during the set. It seems to me this kind of set isn't a good idea if you don't have your ego in check, as it's easy to see someone hurting themselves if they were to go too heavy.

    BTW, anyone else remember the article I mentioned about more fibres being stimulated with a quick negative phase? It may have just been a quick eccentric phase with a medium weight, which would certainly support Tipsta's arguments.

    This is EXACTLY how I believe ALL training should be done. I do EXACTLY this failing at 12 then rest pausing 3 to 5 more. Dont think just 6 contractions or reps as you call them will really tax the muscle to any extent.

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    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRONADICT View Post
    Great thread man. Learned alot already.

    My question is with a body building reutine as you've mentioned how and where in the reutine would you recomend useing power movements such as dead lift, flat bench, clean, clean and jerk and squat? Do you feel these should be done as in power lifting like one rep maxes to build power that can be used in other areas and execises in your reutine? Or should one do higher rep ranges and less weight for a bodybuilding reutine?

    Thanks for all the info.

    I am strictly a cosmetic athlete. That being said I only do exercises that are duplicative of the fibers that make up the muscle itself. I do all my exercises in a 10 plus rep range. Deads are my fifth exercise during back. Flat Bench is my third exercise for chest. I dont do cleans or clean and jerks. Squats are my second exercise for quads.
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    Dedicated Noob jdspinna's Avatar
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    Great info guys.

    It's interesting that there is so much focus on slow rep cadences or slow negatives in so many bodybuilding programs.

    Funny thing is that I always noticed most of the people around me, in the gym etc... who lift with explosive movements seem to carry more muscle than the guys who do not. In the back of my mind I always tried to analyze that and thought maybe It was a coincidence. I guess now I know.

  17. #68
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdspinna View Post
    Great info guys.

    It's interesting that there is so much focus on slow rep cadences or slow negatives in so many bodybuilding programs.

    Funny thing is that I always noticed most of the people around me, in the gym etc... who lift with explosive movements seem to carry more muscle than the guys who do not. In the back of my mind I always tried to analyze that and thought maybe It was a coincidence. I guess now I know.
    They are AWESOME for the slow twitch fibers!!!!!!!
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