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Thread: SARMS

  1. #1
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    Default SARMS

    SARMS are a new class of pharmacologic agents designed to act like steroids, but w/ out the unwanted side effects. In other words, they act on target tissues, in this case skeletal muscle, and are not attracted to other tissues in which androgen receptors are located, ie heart, breast, scalp, etc... The only compound to date known to be a "real" SARM is a drug called Ostarine, which is has undergone phase II clinical trials, as seen in the front page article on MD.

    I am posting the abstract from the actual study that was performed on this drug. I question the idea that this drug could be used for significant anabolic benefit in healthy, trained males/females, at least at the dosages used in the trial. If you read carefully below, over the three month period given, the subjects gained only 1.2 Kg of LBM (2.5 pounds muscle), which over a year time frame corresponds to approximately 10 lbs. Which for someone who is wasting away from the catabolic state of cancer would be great, but for the average joe... given the proper dietary and training regimine, one could gain 10 lbs of muscle, AAS free, in a one year time frame!

    I am skeptical that the SARMX product is a "real" SARM, and that it isn't just a marketing ploy to appeal to those who don't know any better.


    Enjoy the read, and draw your own preliminary conclusions!

    Dr. Avallone

    Background: Cancer cachexia results in selective loss of skeletal muscle resulting in weakness, reduced physical activity and a lower quality of life. Cancer cachexia also diminishes response to chemotherapy and survival. Anabolic steroids appear to increase weight and muscle mass in cancer patients, but have the potential for masculinization in women and prostate stimulation in men. A new class of non-steroidal selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs) is being developed for use in cancer cachexia. SARMs are designed to have predominately anabolic activity in muscle and bone with minimal androgenic effects in most other tissues. We conducted a randomized phase II proof of concept study of ostarine, the first-in-class SARM, in healthy postmenopausal women and elderly men prior to intitiating a phase II study in cancer patients. Methods: Sixty elderly men (mean age 66 years) and 60 postmenopausal women (mean age 63 years) were randomly assigned to ostarine 0.1, 0.3, 1 mg, 3 mg or placebo for three months. The primary end point was change from baseline to three months in total lean body mass (LBM) measured by dual energy x-ray absorptiometry (DXA). The key secondary end point was a stair climb functional performance test that measured speed and power exerted. Evaluations included laboratory safety assessments and additional assessments of androgenic activity including PSA, sebum production and luteinizing hormone. Results: Ostarine treatment resulted in a dose dependent increase in total LBM, with an increase of 1.4 kg compared to placebo (p<0.001) at the 3 mg dose. Increased LBM translated to an improvement in the stair climb test in both speed (+15.5% ± 12.9 faster time, p=0.006) and power (+25.5% ± 20.3 watts, p=0.005). There were no serious adverse events reported. There were no significant changes in PSA, sebum production or luteinizing hormone. Conclusions: Ostarine improves LBM and physical performance in healthy older men and women. Ostarine had no unwanted androgenic side effects. A phase II study is planned to evaluate the safety and efficacy of ostarine in patients with cancer cachexia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedoc07 View Post
    If you read carefully below, over the three month period given, the subjects gained only 1.2 Kg of LBM (2.5 pounds muscle), which over a year time frame corresponds to approximately 10 lbs.
    2.5 pounds of muscle in 12 weeks is great.You sound to me like you never used anabolics before,cause if you did,you wouldn't have stated the below statement.How much muscle tissue do you think an experienced trainee gains off a steroid cycle?It depends on genetics,but after years of training and doing drugs,the gains aren't what the general public(like you) thinks.If we all put on 10 pounds of muscle every year,we'd all be 400 pounds and ripped.


    given the proper dietary and training regimine, one could gain 10 lbs of muscle, AAS free, in a one year time frame!

    Yes, a beginner would or could gain 10 pounds the first year or 2,but experienced trainees wouldn't gain that type of muscle in a year.With or without anabolics.

    .
    ~RR

  3. #3
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    Good response. It sounds to me, from your point of view, that if the gains observed in this study were achievable in a population of seasoned bodybuilders, than it is something to keep an eye on as it makes its way to the pharmacy counter (keeping in mind that the study was conducted on healthy postmenopausal women and elderly men, who I suspect were not seriously trained athletes, and who I suspect would achieve muscle gains easier than the seasoned bodybuilder).

    Thanks for the new point of view... Anyone else??

  4. #4
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    do you know the citations for that article?

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    so when can we get this stuff??

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    Quote Originally Posted by NateWA View Post
    so when can we get this stuff??
    from mhp

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    hahah

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    Google the names of the actual ingrediants in MHP's Sarm-X and you'll find the Diandrone is just another name for DHEA and trans-4-hydroxy-3-methoxycinnamin acid is another way of saying ferulic acid and that is there for its antioxidant and anti inflammitory properties. Ferulic acid is found in seeds and leaves of most plants esspecially wheat, rice and oats.

    The real drug Sarm is still being tested and see what it can actually do....shows promise so far, but MHPs Sarm-X isnt like the real drug being made and tested.

    Ive tried 8 weeks of the Sarm-X and although i did feel pretty good and my muscles felt really tight it def didnt give the results anywhere near what they are claiming.......

    Ive been training for over 6-7 years now and have tried alot of stuff, but IMO save your money from buying the Sarm-X and make sure you have protein, creatine and multi vitamins first before getting all the extra bells and whistles...

    just my 2 cents....hope it helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedoc07 View Post
    Good response. It sounds to me, from your point of view, that if the gains observed in this study were achievable in a population of seasoned bodybuilders, than it is something to keep an eye on as it makes its way to the pharmacy counter (keeping in mind that the study was conducted on healthy postmenopausal women and elderly men, who I suspect were not seriously trained athletes, and who I suspect would achieve muscle gains easier than the seasoned bodybuilder).

    Thanks for the new point of view... Anyone else??
    I think if elderly men and woman can make those type of gains with little training and a normal diet then imagine what it can do for a bodybuilder. The environment for grow if much better , first off the age factor , then high protein/calorie diet , and lastly more rigorous training. Id say if you increased the dose and have a favorable growth environment you have something worth while. Id imagine the cost of this is going to be heavy initially.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geminon View Post
    from mhp

    this might be off topic but iv takin MHP's SARMS and they gave me a real bad case of gyno. i thought they arnt supposed to stuff like that to ya? i know thats what it was cuz i stopped jumped on the real nolva and after about a week and a half it started shrinking. and like a dumb ass i strart again and it came back. so iv been off for about 6 months and it hasnt come back so no more SARMS for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongback View Post
    this might be off topic but iv takin MHP's SARMS and they gave me a real bad case of gyno. i thought they arnt supposed to stuff like that to ya? i know thats what it was cuz i stopped jumped on the real nolva and after about a week and a half it started shrinking. and like a dumb ass i strart again and it came back. so iv been off for about 6 months and it hasnt come back so no more SARMS for me.
    Huh?

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    thats what i thought about it too.

    so they might work for some but as for me its....

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongback View Post
    this might be off topic but iv takin MHP's SARMS and they gave me a real bad case of gyno. i thought they arnt supposed to stuff like that to ya? i know thats what it was cuz i stopped jumped on the real nolva and after about a week and a half it started shrinking. and like a dumb ass i strart again and it came back. so iv been off for about 6 months and it hasnt come back so no more SARMS for me.
    it has DHEA in it which may have caused it.

    its OAT extract (the "sarm") + DHEA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geminon View Post
    it has DHEA in it which may have caused it.

    its OAT extract (the "sarm") + DHEA

    so could i take them with somthing like a anti-e to combat the problem or would that throw the sarm all off? cuz i liked what i was gettin from it just not the gyno? thx

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1strongback View Post
    so could i take them with somthing like a anti-e to combat the problem or would that throw the sarm all off? cuz i liked what i was gettin from it just not the gyno? thx
    get ya $ back... that supplement is trash its not a real SARM and doesnt workin humans.I was totally kidding when I said MHP's product

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    well i got that stuff when this sarm's thing first started.... oh well..

  17. #17
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    MHPs "sarm" is not a real SARM and is no different than any other PH etc and you guys should know that if it were a true SARM it would be black market not found on the shelves of a GNC.

    Like PT Barnum once said "there's a sucker born every minute!".

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