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Thread: Back Training Question

  1. #35
    Dedicated Noob 55nSexy's Avatar
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    i agree with Phil, why should training be any different for natural or not?? go at it hard and heavy, yes genetics helps and it does NOT hapen over night!! look at these big guys, bet it took many years for the Huge back!!

    1st post here hope all is good!!

  2. #36
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by philborg View Post

    On another note, do you really believe that training for natural vs. enhanced bodybuilders really differs? I know that steroids can help but I'm pretty sure that drugs or not, the training should be virtually the same.

    I agree, but for some reason the Old days of training seem to have gotten lost in the new days of drugs. Back before the drugs during the golden era from 1960 to 1970 training was beyond any intensity than any of us know or could handle. We are SALLY'S compared to the guys back then.
    There was no such thing as a single set. It was to failure with forced reps then a superset that was part of some giant set. Let's be honest, today its just a memory.
    Last edited by Tipsta; January 13th, 2008 at 03:54 PM.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
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  3. #37
    Dedicated Noob 55nSexy's Avatar
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    don't know Tipsta, some of us still do "total muscle failure" workouts!! pretty generalized comment there!! with that i would also say that some friends still believe that they need to workout harder when they are cycling then when they are not!! i would say that workouts these days a quite a bit more "scientific" in their regiment and nutrition compared to the guys back in the '60's era, even compared to the '70's & '80's!!

  4. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by philborg View Post
    Sorry Tipsta, I know you know your shit but I just got aggravated because it does seem like you tend to tell people that they are wrong in a very condescending way rather than give constructive criticism, but I know you were just trying to help.

    On another note, do you really believe that training for natural vs. enhanced bodybuilders really differs? I know that steroids can help but I'm pretty sure that drugs or not, the training should be virtually the same.
    I train the EXACT same way whether I am on or off, same sets, reps, amount of exercises, days per week, all identical..

  5. #39

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    I do have to say that I think some of today's physiques look more "watery" like the muscle would expell nothing but fluid, like it could "pop" so to speak and in the past the bodybuilders muscles looked thicker and denser, today's physiques look wider, but not thicker nor denser, and I am talking about both men and women. Not all of course but some...I have not seen a female bodybuilder thicker than Bev Francis, or Kay Baxter nor a male bodybuilder thicker than Casey Viator or Mike Menzter. and I am not talking about overall size, and width. I have seen videos of pro bodybuilders I see a lot of light-weight partial range of motion pumping sets. This does not correlate to all of todays bodybuilders but certainly quite a few....some are looking great out there but not all.

  6. #40
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 55nSexy View Post
    don't know Tipsta, some of us still do "total muscle failure" workouts!! pretty generalized comment there!! with that i would also say that some friends still believe that they need to workout harder when they are cycling then when they are not!! i would say that workouts these days a quite a bit more "scientific" in their regiment and nutrition compared to the guys back in the '60's era, even compared to the '70's & '80's!!
    Pretty generalized?

    Show me one video from the in the trenches series, and there are plenty to watch, that has anyone doing even one forced rep or superset or any old school exercise.
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  7. #41
    Bro Scientist NYC BIG MIKE's Avatar
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    I gotta agree with Tipsta here. Bodybuilders back in the day would spend hours working out and the intensity is not often matched by todays bodybuilders.

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  8. #42

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    Let's break it down to the pedestrian level. Different fibers are recruited as the stress is increased. You want all the fibers eventually firing at once for maximum growth. The greater the stress, the quicker the response. Lifting heavy weight strictly quickly calls all the fibers into activity and places the greatest stress on them. You want to get them activated and then to failure quickly, which is what heavy training does...and is the basis for HIT training, which I believe our beloved Mr. Palumbo practices.

    Anything over 10 reps requires lighter weight and trains ENDURANCE! Let's look at it anecdotely....who has larger thighs, the miler or the sprinter?

  9. #43
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esplendido View Post
    Let's break it down to the pedestrian level. Different fibers are recruited as the stress is increased. You want all the fibers eventually firing at once for maximum growth. The greater the stress, the quicker the response. Lifting heavy weight strictly quickly calls all the fibers into activity and places the greatest stress on them. You want to get them activated and then to failure quickly, which is what heavy training does...and is the basis for HIT training, which I believe our beloved Mr. Palumbo practices.

    Anything over 10 reps requires lighter weight and trains ENDURANCE! Let's look at it anecdotely....who has larger thighs, the miler or the sprinter?

    They will be two sets though. The first to 8 then the second of 3 to 4. The workload created by this protocol will surpass just doing the 8 reps. Thats how its done. Anyone who doesnt train to failure and beyond with any protocol is limiting his growth.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  10. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsta View Post
    I agree, but for some reason the Old days of training seem to have gotten lost in the new days of drugs. Back before the drugs during the golden era from 1960 to 1970 training was beyond any intensity than any of us know or could handle. We are SALLY'S compared to the guys back then.
    There was no such thing as a single set. It was to failure with forced reps then a superset that was part of some giant set. Let's be honest, today its just a memory.
    Tip....I almost broke out in hilarious laughter when I read this. Have you ever heard Sergio Oliva talk about those days? Or Serge Nubret. Or take it from me, who has talked personally with these old pros and have some of them as my friends.....steroids were used with abandon during those days. They were limited in variety, i.e. Deca, Test, DBol, but they used GREAT quantities. Their physiques are not far off from the men of today....especially if you take GH and Insulin out of the equation.

    And, although some of those men worked out hours a day most of the days of the week, many of them did 5 hours a day once or twice a week....just like doing every bodypart once a week. Of course they overloaded. They did so by lifting HEAVY for medium reps. Many of them never changed their routine for years and never for contest training.

    That being said, if high rep training works for you (as it did for Serge Nubret), then you have the genetic predisposition for it, which is rare.

    And training should be the same for naturals and users. Users will just get bigger. Same principals apply.

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