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Thread: Mind/Muscle connection. Chest

  1. #1
    Spotter muscleup71's Avatar
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    Default Mind/Muscle connection. Chest

    I am having serious problems with the mind meld and my chest.

    Incline press X 5
    Dumb bell press X 5
    Flat flyes X 5
    Cable crosses X 5
    Pec deck

    But I cannot "feel" the burn. My delts seem to give out B4 my chest.

    Now remember I was shot in the chest, and blew out my scapula.
    Is this Hopefully the prob??

  2. #2
    Amateur Threat kiloman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muscleup71 View Post
    I am having serious problems with the mind meld and my chest.

    Incline press X 5
    Dumb bell press X 5
    Flat flyes X 5
    Cable crosses X 5
    Pec deck

    But I cannot "feel" the burn. My delts seem to give out B4 my chest.

    Now remember I was shot in the chest, and blew out my scapula.
    Is this Hopefully the prob??


    incline press, use with dumbells instead of barbell, and it may be the angle of the chair.. and if you find the right angle you can alter the way your holding the DB's for it to work best for you

  3. #3

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    Firstly, that seems a lot of sets, 20+ just for chest?

    Secondly, I highly recommend you read the 'Chest' article written by bodyfx2 in the 'Training Articles' in this forum section. Id put a link to it but i got no idea lol - could be the answer you are looking for.

  4. #4
    Atlas Youngguns's Avatar
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    WAY too much volume

    Try this:
    Incline Barbell bench Or Flat Barbell Bench 4x6reps
    Incline Dumbbell bench or Flat Dumbbell bench 3x8reps
    Incline or Flat Flyes 3x8

    Stick to that for 5 weeks adding either 5lbs for barbell lifts or 2.5 for Dumbbells or an extra rep per week each week, on the last set. Ramp the weight up. ex. 100, 120, 140, 160, next week last set will be an extra rep or 5lbs added...
    Trueprotein.com 5% Discount code- KEM010

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    Spotter muscleup71's Avatar
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    I typically hit 20-24 sets per group.

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    Spotter muscleup71's Avatar
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    could it be possible that I might be overtraining?

    7 days a week, 2 hours a day.

    20-24 sets per muscle group.

    One muscle group per day.

    I am constantly tired, no energy. Kind of thought maybe I was malnourished??

    But........
    It is working for me at present. Really afraid to do splits, and lower the volume.

    Gunny

  7. #7

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    Some people do not feel the burn in their chest. I almost never do, but it is still the best part of my upper body.

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    Spotter muscleup71's Avatar
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    I am not complaining about my chest growth.

    It is coming along fine,(even with the damn Gyno )

    I am just not feeling it.

    Durk, you get it.

    when I curl the bar, I feel it in the lil muscle called the bicep, and when I pull the middle row i feel it in my Lats.

    I push the bar off my tiny little Xyphoid, I just don't "feel" it.

    Now i guess I am not alone. THX

    Gunny

  9. #9
    Atlas Youngguns's Avatar
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    /....
    Trueprotein.com 5% Discount code- KEM010

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    Spotter muscleup71's Avatar
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    moved to "overtrained?"

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    Try pressing your shoulder blades down and together and you shoulders down into the bench. Most people round out like crazy especially at the top, essentially putting the brunt of the weight onto their delts, and triceps, allowing the pecs to relax.
    You could try preexhausting your sets with dumbell flyes first and then hitting up a compound movement. his allowed me to really get a burn in my chest, cause it was already tired and gave out before my triceps and shoulders, while before the opposite was happening, my arms where giving out before my chest.
    Go to Eric Broser's thread (bodyfx) and read his chest article. it is a great piece of reading.

  12. #12

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    To build up greater motor control and subsequently greater fiber recruitment of the intended muscle group(s), focus on a slow eccentric range (muscle extends - sometimes called a "negative") and some static holds.

    For instance, next time you do bench press, perform your working sets in a 4-0-2-0 tempos... thats 4 seconds down, no pause, 2 seconds up, no pause - for one rep. Since you want to build a better mind-muscle connection, keep your eccentric phases at least 4 seconds in your program design, 3 seconds for shorter range movements (like curls).

    Also, static contraction training can do wonders here. What you do is simply perform one rep and then hold the load in the muscles contracted position - just short of lock out. You will need a spot for this. Focus on your chest squeezing and maintaining the load. You'll start to shake - that's your mind trying to gather more muscle recruitment. Fight the shaking and focus on your pecs... when you can no longer hold it - it will start to decend quite quickly (eccentric failure comes soon after static failure), so have a spotter on stand by.

    Here is something I wrote last summer, regarding motor control and bodybuilding...

    Training muscle memory and motor skills
    July 16th, 2007

    Muscle memory is a phrase commonly referenced by strength trainees and coaches; however, most use the term incorrectly or fail to totally grasp the relationship to general motor skill ability. The majority of strength athletes simply believe muscle memory refers to an ability to regain muscle, strength lost from an extended period of detraining. More accurately, muscle memory is not the cause of regaining strength but the effect strength training has on the nervous system’s ability to properly activate a muscle intended to perform a specific movement.

    Motor memory refers to recalling specific motor skills. Proper motor skills are required for the muscles, brain, skeleton, joints and nervous system to work together efficiently toward accomplishing a task. Muscle memory is properly defined as the body’s collective ability to memorize and perform well rehearsed muscular contractions.

    Increases in limit strength are a result of many factors, but it makes sense to consider resistance training as a motor learning process. Strength progression involves muscular growth with a build up of new proteins, while improvements in coordination are a learning process established by new neural pathways in the central nervous system. Motor and muscle memory connections mature with training consistency.

    These affects on motor skills and neural drive explain the well documented influence overtraining syndrome has on performance - resulting in progression plateaus. Overreaching, and subsequently overtraining, causes CNS fatigue. This produces sub maximal muscle contractions from decreased physiological arousal. Neural drive comes to a slowing skid.

    Additionally, this premise further explains why strength coaches routinely advise power athletes to train with their competition’s lifts; such as bench press, deadlift and squat. Training each upper body muscle with isolation exercises will not peak bench press power; the lift itself must also be routinely performed. This builds up the functional strength required, as well as a proper mind-muscle connection.

    A lot of events occur while consistently performing strength training routines to muscular failure. It is well known that previously untrained individuals can attribute early strength gains to increased motor unit activation of trained muscles. Muscle fiber hypertrophy is often insufficient to account for measured changes in strength during the early stages of resistance training. Strength is frequently gained with no changes in lean body mass. An increase in muscle fiber cross sectional area becomes a leading training adaptation during later stages.

    Alterations in the activation of multiple systems during training can be related to changes in the ability to focus motor commands to specific muscles. Elite athletes exhibit reduced multi-muscle activation. During the early stages of training, strength gains can be attributed to less antagonist muscle involvement and greater neural efficiency toward activating the intended muscle.

    The value of a training stimulus is based on an individual’s training experience and formal instruction to accurately recruit muscular systems. A previously untrained person will perform a movement with one intention: move a load from point A to B. Proper exercise form can be lost in an attempt to make the movement easier; an understandable reaction but it must be minimized for further strength and muscular development.

    For instance, a beginner will usually perform a bicep barbell curl while swinging their arms and falling short of adequately extending their elbow joints in a rush to become stronger. The load ends up recruiting much larger supportive muscles while using the bone structure to provide additional leverage. The biceps muscles are suppose to get direct engagement but become insufficiently recruited for each repetition. The training stimulus required for growth of the biceps is consequently weak.

    On the other side, experienced and well built bodybuilders use superior technique by properly developing the motor skills required for strength training. They exhibit superior mind-muscle connections and motor memory throughout each workout. The load moved during a biceps curl moves with intense bicep contractions. The elbow joint is properly extended for each repetition and excessive momentum fails to take tension away from the biceps. The muscle receives adequate recruitment and the training stimulus sets the stage for total muscular failure and successive growth.

    Muscle memory can allow a return to previous strength levels; as long as sufficient motor skills and neural drive was developed. After a period of detraining, the early stages of retraining a muscle can be more lucrative for a previously successful athlete.

  13. #13
    Bro Scientist NYC BIG MIKE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youngguns View Post
    WAY too much volume

    Try this:
    Incline Barbell bench Or Flat Barbell Bench 4x6reps
    Incline Dumbbell bench or Flat Dumbbell bench 3x8reps
    Incline or Flat Flyes 3x8

    Stick to that for 5 weeks adding either 5lbs for barbell lifts or 2.5 for Dumbbells or an extra rep per week each week, on the last set. Ramp the weight up. ex. 100, 120, 140, 160, next week last set will be an extra rep or 5lbs added...


    Bah. John Parillo said "There's no such thing as overtraining, only undereating."

    If you recover adequately it's not overtraining.


    NYC BIG MIKE

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    Spotter muscleup71's Avatar
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    muscles recovering, lymbatics not.

    I am absolutely sure i am rounding at the top when benching, I do feel it in the delts and the tri's.

    I tried a wider grip, but that basically shortened the range of motion B4 I rounded.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYC BIG MIKE View Post
    Bah. John Parillo said "There's no such thing as overtraining, only undereating."

    If you recover adequately it's not overtraining.


    NYC BIG MIKE
    I agree. If you do nothing but shove food down your throat all day you will not overtrain.

  16. #16
    Bro Scientist NYC BIG MIKE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muscleup71 View Post
    muscles recovering, lymbatics not.

    I am absolutely sure i am rounding at the top when benching, I do feel it in the delts and the tri's.

    I tried a wider grip, but that basically shortened the range of motion B4 I rounded.

    Before lifting off on any barbell or db chest movements, pin (retract) your shoulder blades together on the bench, this will aid greatly in keeping the focus on your chest and out of your shoulders and tris.

    NYC BIG MIKE

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYC BIG MIKE View Post
    Bah. John Parillo said "There's no such thing as overtraining, only undereating."

    If you recover adequately it's not overtraining.


    NYC BIG MIKE
    No so sure about that Mike.Everyone has different recouperative abilities.One person can do 20 sets for chest and recovery within days,CNS and muscle-wise,where another person would do 20 sets and have his CNS in chaos for 5 days or more,depending on intensity of workout.Eating a perfect diet too,getting 7-8 hrs of sleep.

    The term "Overtraining" is used far too vaguely IMO.

    Good to see you around Mike!

    ~RR

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