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View Poll Results: hcg usage?

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  • during cycle

    48 40.00%
  • on pct

    52 43.33%
  • never

    14 11.67%
  • what the hell is hcg?????

    6 5.00%
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Thread: HCG usage- on cycle, on post cycle therapy or...never?

  1. #1
    Dedicated Noob mdnunes xt's Avatar
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    Default HCG usage- on cycle, on post cycle therapy or...never?

    Ok for all the juicers out there , I would like to know what they think its best for a good rehabilitation after a steroid cycle.
    HCG is nowadays a must have in all steroid cycles or post cycle therapy, but I believe that not everyone knows the danger of bad usage of this drug, high dosages shots or prolonged usage can lead to a desensitization of leydig cells turning the recovery even more difficult and even some permanent damage to the testicles.
    I personally believe in the swalle`s protocol that advocates low dosages shots during cycle , and (this is only my personal opinion ) for no more than 6 weeks continuously beginning on week 3.
    well bros I would like to see a good debate around hcg, here you go the Swalle protocol:



    "I advise my anabolic androgenic steroids patients to use small amounts of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

    Any more than 500IU of HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

    If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - is so inexpensive.

    The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. lh - leutenizing hormone - levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a selective estrogen receptor modulator, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERMs at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of anabolic androgenic steroids (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

    I want my patients to stop taking HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a bridge. Just because you are not inhibiting the hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you cant fool the body it is smarter than you are.

    I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an aromatase inhibitor while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase lh - leutenizing hormone - production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground and we dont want that, do we?).

    All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols."

  2. #2

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    Good post, nice info.
    Up the dose, Lift the most!!!

  3. #3
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    THINK THE SHIT IS OVERRATED, UNLESS UR BALLS R GONE WHY DO IT?

    AND I THINK PALUMBO SAID, EVENTUALLY UR BALLS WILL COME BACK ANYWAYS

  4. #4
    Dedicated Noob mdnunes xt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WingNut View Post
    Good post, nice info.
    thanks , I already post this in another forum with no replies, I really don't understand why people dint discuss this, for me its a very important topic.

  5. #5
    Dedicated Noob mdnunes xt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceAdam View Post
    THINK THE SHIT IS OVERRATED, UNLESS UR BALLS R GONE WHY DO IT?

    AND I THINK PALUMBO SAID, EVENTUALLY UR BALLS WILL COME BACK ANYWAYS
    hcg overrated , man it was the first time I heard that...
    for you to keep your gains after a cycle you need to recover quick and hcg keep your balls in shape , how can this be over rated

  6. #6
    Dr Pangloss
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    I think it's a must-have if you're hpta is still intact. Puts the boys right back to work. I don't use it for 6 weeks though. although i've used it during cycle i prefer to use it for two weeks following the last shot.

    Imo, you're just driving more negative feedback by using it constantly while you're on cycle. If there were some worry of leydig cell death during suppression i would do it during, but that's not the case as far as i know.

  7. #7

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    HCG is a great idea. About the simplest way to explain it is:
    Point of PCT = stimulate HPTA function as fast as possible
    The testes can't make testosterone when they're atrophied
    If you're experiencing testicular atrophy, you gotta wait on the boys to get up to size before they can do anything, so taking HCG even just the last few weeks before PCT helps tons by reversing atrophy, allowing recovery time to be reduced.

  8. #8
    Dedicated Noob mdnunes xt's Avatar
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    when I see the indications and dosage that its used on cases of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism in males, they preconize a 6 weeks treatment so I guess that there will be no desensitization of leydig cells in a period like that so I guess that for a cycle between 6-10 weeks and beginning hcg in week 3 its perfect, and more for people who want to avoid testosterone in their cycles I believe that 500iu/week of hcg will provide the necessary test for normal life.

    hcg-indications and dosage:
    http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/chorionic_ids.htm

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdnunes xt View Post
    when I see the indications and dosage that its used on cases of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism in males, they preconize a 6 weeks treatment so I guess that there will be no desensitization of leydig cells in a period like that so I guess that for a cycle between 6-10 weeks and beginning hcg in week 3 its perfect, and more for people who want to avoid testosterone in their cycles I believe that 500iu/week of hcg will provide the necessary test for normal life.

    hcg-indications and dosage:
    http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/chorionic_ids.htm


    That link has like twenty different dosage recommendations! And they are all very different. What is up with that?
    Up the dose, Lift the most!!!

  10. #10
    Dedicated Noob mdnunes xt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WingNut View Post
    That link has like twenty different dosage recommendations! And they are all very different. What is up with that?
    see the indications to cases of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism in males, you`ll see the 6 weeks 500ius

  11. #11
    Dedicated Noob anabolicjay's Avatar
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    on cycle, never pct unless your really shut down.

  12. #12
    Dedicated Noob mdnunes xt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anabolicjay View Post
    on cycle, never pct unless your really shut down.
    I agree completely , a lot of people use in pct shooting more than 1500iu in one shot and for what I read this can be a dangerous procedure leading to the desensitization of leydig cells and probably to a permanent damage in the testicles

  13. #13

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    Selected cases of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism in males.
    1. 500 to 1,000 USP Units three times a week for three weeks, followed by the same dose twice a week for three weeks.
    2. 4,000 USP Units three times weekly for six to nine months, following which the dosage may be reduced to 2,000 USP Units three times weekly for an additional three months.




    Even under that category they recommend two drastically different protocols for HCG. That doesn't make any sense! read this shit!
    Up the dose, Lift the most!!!

  14. #14
    Dedicated Noob mdnunes xt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WingNut View Post
    Selected cases of hypogonadotropic hypogonadism in males.
    1. 500 to 1,000 USP Units three times a week for three weeks, followed by the same dose twice a week for three weeks.
    2. 4,000 USP Units three times weekly for six to nine months, following which the dosage may be reduced to 2,000 USP Units three times weekly for an additional three months.




    Even under that category they recommend two drastically different protocols for HCG. That doesn't make any sense! read this shit!
    the first make sense the second not...

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdnunes xt View Post
    the first make sense the second not...
    That is a copy past from the link you posted. Why the fuck would they recommend two COMPLETELY different protocols for the same condition. I guess it doesn't really matter, just pisses me off. Its fucking impossible to find solid information on this kinda shit (AAS, PCT drugs). Everyone will tell you something different, even this fucking schmo doctor!
    Up the dose, Lift the most!!!

  16. #16
    Dedicated Noob mdnunes xt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WingNut View Post
    That is a copy past from the link you posted. Why the fuck would they recommend two COMPLETELY different protocols for the same condition. I guess it doesn't really matter, just pisses me off. Its fucking impossible to find solid information on this kinda shit (AAS, PCT drugs). Everyone will tell you something different, even this fucking schmo doctor!
    yeah, this hcg topic its very shady but I think that a person can be safe using it for 6 weeks on low dosages...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by anabolicjay View Post
    on cycle, never pct unless your really shut down.
    and how do you know that you are shut?

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