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Thread: HCG and it's Use in Functional Medicine!

  1. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    RR stated that his endo told him. I have been unable to verify this with low dose HCG.
    I don't think it was him. It may have been William Llewellyn's book.

  2. #19
    Super Moderator heavyiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaus Urine View Post
    I don't think it was him. It may have been William Llewellyn's book.
    with low dose HCG?

    let me see....


    Nope he uses the word desensitize in the context of 1500-4000iu every 4th or 5th day. "for long periods" and then he goes on to describe Crislers protocol like I cited earlier in the thread. I have his anabolics 2007 version and the info is on page 552 and 553.
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  3. #20

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    In that case, it's probably desensitization that I was thinking of.

  4. #21

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    heavyiron, I know I asked this question before, Im staying on cycle for approximately 4-6 months depending on how competition goes.

    I can do 250iu eod throughout cycle this ok?

    Also was looking at a study where people were administered 1000iu a week for 1 month on, then 1 month off, and repeated, could I follow similar you think?

    So 250iu eod for a month followed by a month off

    just worried about any possibilities of long term damage really.

  5. #22

    Default Simeons HCG Protocol

    The Simeons protocol claims its possible to drop up to 40lbs of fat in 45 days with daily 200iu injections and approx 500 cal day.

    Does anyone know if using some tren and win with this HCG protocol would help drop more fat or if it would counteract the HCG?

  6. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by eway View Post
    The Simeons protocol claims its possible to drop up to 40lbs of fat in 45 days with daily 200iu injections and approx 500 cal day.

    Does anyone know if using some tren and win with this HCG protocol would help drop more fat or if it would counteract the HCG?
    hcg will not drop anything close to that.
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  7. #24
    Super Moderator heavyiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ukstrongman View Post
    heavyiron, I know I asked this question before, Im staying on cycle for approximately 4-6 months depending on how competition goes.

    I can do 250iu eod throughout cycle this ok?

    Also was looking at a study where people were administered 1000iu a week for 1 month on, then 1 month off, and repeated, could I follow similar you think?

    So 250iu eod for a month followed by a month off

    just worried about any possibilities of long term damage really.
    my doc prescribes 500iu twice weekly forever.
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  8. #25

    Default GnRH

    Hi Guys!
    I have been asked if you could achieve the same results you would obtain in a PCT with a drug like "Fertagyl" generic: gonadorelin, a synthetic GnRH made as a vet-drug by Intervet. Comes at a dose of 100microgram/ml.
    If it is indeed usefull as a substitute for HcG, what dose would be equivilant. Or how do you equate micrograms to I.U.'s?
    I hope someone can enlighten me on this subject.

  9. #26

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    I have been reading on the net that HCG goes bad after 4 weeks. At 1000 IU's a week, you can only use 4,000 IU's per 10,000 IU box of HCG.

    This would kind of suck to throw 6,000 IU's in the trash and have to mix up a new batch every four weeks.

    Any of you guys use HCG for longer than 4 weeks before making a new batch?

  10. #27

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    My doctor told me it stay good for 90 days (Keep in the fridge)

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    my doc prescribes 500iu twice weekly forever.

    our doc is great
    "Feel ill as fuck - not sure if it is protein powder or tren?"-bigdog123

  12. #29
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    i have recently come off a superdrol and pheraplex cycle, and i have been shut down bad, i went to see my Doc, which then he prescribed HCG to be taken M W F at 1000 iu's. ive been taking it for a month now and i have not noticed any significant changes, i was doing the shot intramuscularly. he prescribed me another vial and i was curious to how long i could safely take HCG without damaging anything or how long of a break should i take from it before starting it again. if this doesnt work he plans on sending me to an Endo to go Through testosterone therapy. he also prescribed me letrozole at 1.25mg every other week

  13. #30
    Super Moderator heavyiron's Avatar
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    This study demonstrates that HCG can increase sperm count, testosterone levels, estradiol levels and testicle volume.


    Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 66, No. 6 1144-1151
    doi:10.1210/jcem-66-6-1144
    Copyright 1988 by the Endocrine Society.

    Gonadotropin Therapy in Men With Isolated Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism: The Response to Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Is Predicted by Initial Testicular Size

    ALLEN S. BURRIS, HELENA W. RODBARD*, STEPHEN J. WINTERS and RICHARD J. SHERINS

    Developmental Endocrinology Branch, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, National Institutes of Health Bethesda, Maryland 20892

    Address requests for reprints to: Richard J. Sherins, M.D., National Institutes of Health, Building 10, Room 10N262, Bethesda, Maryland 20892.

    This study was designed to determine whether exogenous hCG alone can complete spermiogenesis in men with isolated hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (IHH). hCG was administered to 22 men with IHH until maximal testicular growth was achieved. Their mean testicular volume increased from 5.5 1.1 (SE) mL (pretreatment) to 10.8 1.6 mL (maximum) during treatment (P < 106). The maximum mean testicular volume was highly positively correlated with initial volume (r = 0.84; P < 106). All men attained normal serum testosterone levels, and 7 of 22 men achieved supraphysiological serum estradiol levels.

    During hCG treatment, 14 of the 22 men had sperm appear in their semen. Six of 11 men with complete gonadotropin deficiency, defined as an initial mean testicular volume less than 4 mL, became sperm positive during hCG treatment. In contrast, 9 of 11 men with partial gonadotropin deficiency (initial mean testicular volume of 4 mL or more) produced sperm during treatment (P < 0.001). Sperm concentration was highly positively correlated with both pretreatment (r = 0.65; P < 0.01) and final testicular volume (r = 0.73; P < 0.0001). Of 13 men attempting to impregnate their partners, 7 were successful in initiating conception; a total of 8 pregnancies ensued. The sperm concentration at the time of conception was less than 10 million/mL in all but 1 man.

    Our study demonstrates that hCG, in the absence of exogenous FSH, can complete spermiogenesis in men with partial gonadotropin deficiency. The response to hCG in men with IHH is predicted by the initial testicular volume.
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  14. #31
    Super Moderator heavyiron's Avatar
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    Contrary to what is posted on the net HCG does not promote weight loss at all.

    Ineffectiveness of human chorionic gonadotropin in weight reduction: a double-blind study.

    Stein MR, Julis RE, Peck CC, Hinshaw W, Sawicki JE, Deller JJ Jr.

    Our investigation was designed to retest the hypothesis of the efficacy of human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) on weight reduction in obese women in a clinic setting. We sought to duplicate the Asher-Harper study (1973) which had found that the combination of 500 cal diet and HCG had a statistically significant benefit over the diet and placebo combination as evidenced by greater weight loss and decrease in hunger. Fifty-one women between the ages of 18 and 60 participated in our 32-day prospective, randomized, double-blind comparison of HCG versus placebo. Each patient was given the same diet (the one prescribed in the Asher-Harper study), was weighed daily Monday through Saturday and was counselled by one of the investigators who administered the injections. Laboratory studies were performed at the time of initial physical examinations and at the end of the study. Twenty of 25 in the HCG and 21 of 26 patients in the placebo groups completed 28 injections. There was no statistically significant difference in the means of the two groups in number of injections received, weight loss, percent of weight loss, hip and waist circumference, weight loss per injections, or in hunger ratings. HCG does not appear to enhance the effectiveness of a rigidly imposed regimen for weight reduction.

    PMID: 786001 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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  15. #32
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    This study on rats shows a refractory period of 60-96 hours after HCG administration. This may lend support to every 3-4 day injects of HCG rather than eod.



    Testicular steroidogenesis after human chorionic gonadotropin desensitization in rats.

    Chasalow F, Marr H, Haour F, Saez JM.

    When a single injection of 500 I.U. of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) is given to rats there is an initial acute rise of plasma testosterone and of testicular content for both cyclic AMP and testosterone. This response correlates with an increase in both lyase and 17 alpha-hydroxylase activities. Thereafter both plasma and testicular testosterone decline and do not increase after a second injection of hCG. During this period of desensitization, isolated Leydig cells were insensitive to the steroidogenic stimulatory effect of both hCG and dibutyryl cyclic AMP. The post-cyclic AMP block is not due to an alteration of the cyclic AMP-dependent protein kinase but it is correlated with a decrease in both lyase and 17 alpha-hydroxylase activities of the Leydig cell's microsomes. This decrease is not caused by the absence of the recently described cytosol activator of this enzyme because its addition did not restore the enzymatic activity. Within 60 to 96 h after hCG injection there was a spontaneous increase of both plasma and testicular testosterone and this parallels the recovery of lyase and 17 alpha-hydroxylase activities. These results suggest that both enzymatic activities are regulated, directly or indirectly, by hCG, and that this is partly responsible for the hCG-induced steroidogenic refractoriness of Leydig cells.

    PMID: 221476 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    full study
    http://www.jbc.org/content/254/13/5613.full.pdf
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  16. #33
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    The potential roles of estrogens in regulating Leydig cell development and function: A review

    References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.

    Tom O. Abney, , a

    a Department of Physiology and Endocrinology, Medical College of Georgia, Augusta, Georgia 30912, USA

    Available online 10 September 1999.

    Abstract
    It is generally agreed that estrogens, principally estradiol-17β, are synthesized by and act in the testis of mammals, including humans. The site of estradiol synthesis in the testis is generally believed to begin in the Sertoli cell and switch to the Leydig cell during neonatal development where a gonadotropin-regulated aromatase is present. Numerous studies suggest that the primary target cell of estradiol in the testis at all ages is the Leydig cell. In fact, the Leydig cell is known to possess an estrogen receptor that binds estradiol in the classic manner. The mechanism of estradiol action and the role of its receptor in the testis, however, remain unresolved. In Leydig cells, estradiol appears to induce several alterations that are dependent in large part on the developmental stage of the Leydig cell. In the fetal and neonatal testes, estradiol appears to block the ontogenic development of Leydig cells from precursor cells. There is also evidence that estradiol similarly blocks the regeneration of Leydig cells in the testis of mature, ethane dimethylsulfonate-treated animals. Evidence indicates that the precursor cell possesses high levels of estrogen receptors relative to that of the Leydig cell. It is postulated that estradiol is a paracrine factor involved in regulating the interstitial population of Leydig cells. Evidence also indicates that estradiol acts directly in the mature testis to block androgen production. It appears to do so by inhibiting the activities of several steroidogenic enzymes involved in testosterone synthesis. Although the more conventional receptor-mediated mode of action is feasible, several studies have suggested that this action might entail direct competitive inhibition of key steroidogenic enzymes by estradiol. In summary, the net biologic effect of estradiol in the testis appears to be inhibition of androgen production, either by limiting development and growth of the Leydig cell population or through direct action in the Leydig cell.
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  17. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Contrary to what is posted on the net HCG does not promote weight loss at all.

    Ineffectiveness of human chorionic gonadotropin in weight reduction: a double-blind study.
    HCG is not supposed to promote weight loss : it just changes where you lose weight to mainly fat while promoting muscle gain (even on 500 Cal/day). This is caused mainly by increase in the testosterone (and E2 in women) . In men a steroid cycle would probably work as well. This study forgot to measure body fat content, or they would have seen a significant difference.

    In uncontrolled settings HCG may result is greater weight loss caused by the improved motivation and ability to stick to this draconian 500 cal/day diet when you see inches melt away where it counts (rather than appearing to lose mainly muscle strength without HCG). Not having your muscle waste away will also make it easier to excercise and lose additional weight that way.

    500 Cal/day is dangerous without medical supervision since you will have a hard time eating enough protein, vegetables and fruit to cover basic nutritional requirements. There is no reason not to use HCG with a safer 1000+ Cal/day (low-carb) diet though.

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