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View Poll Results: Carb load sequence

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  • Start with complex and move to simple

    36 45.57%
  • Start with simple and move to complex

    37 46.84%
  • Do not carb load

    6 7.59%
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Thread: Simple vs Complex to start carb load

  1. #1

    Default Simple vs Complex to start carb load

    Carb load sequence.

  2. #2
    Spotter becks's Avatar
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    Use what you have been eating all the way through the diet as you know how your body reacts.


    If you use complex carbs through your diet then simply increase the amount.

    If you refeed each week using simple carbs then use the same carbs. Know how long it takes for your body to expel the water and look your best for pre-judging.

  3. #3
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadChad View Post
    Carb load sequence.
    The text book answer is that since you are depleted to your lowest point, the muscle is very accepting to insulin at any level but once the glycogen begins to store so will the threshold of insulin need to be lowered. That was your text book answer.

    The right answer is strictly dependant on your situation as Ive been as low as mid 3's in bodyfat to high 5's at some shows over the 23 years.

    The more fat you carry the less insulin you will be able to secrete safely without spilling over as spillover is exactly that. Insulin is attempting to enter the fat cell and not the muscle cell. Those at the peak of their game use a glucometer for 100% accuracy but 99% of guys who compete use the "ROLL THE DICE" protocol.

    Also the simple calculation of each gram of carb consumed will utilize 2.7 grams of water must be taken into account so you will be able to drink more water if theres less sub q fluid/fat on you and less water if there is more sub q fluid/fat.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsta View Post
    The text book answer is that since you are depleted to your lowest point, the muscle is very accepting to insulin at any level but once the glycogen begins to store so will the threshold of insulin need to be lowered. That was your text book answer.

    The right answer is strictly dependant on your situation as Ive been as low as mid 3's in bodyfat to high 5's at some shows over the 23 years.

    The more fat you carry the less insulin you will be able to secrete safely without spilling over as spillover is exactly that. Insulin is attempting to enter the fat cell and not the muscle cell. Those at the peak of their game use a glucometer for 100% accuracy but 99% of guys who compete use the "ROLL THE DICE" protocol.

    Also the simple calculation of each gram of carb consumed will utilize 2.7 grams of water must be taken into account so you will be able to drink more water if theres less sub q fluid/fat on you and less water if there is more sub q fluid/fat.
    This is why we start big time with the white potatos (+GDA) on wednesday and then back them off on Thurs and cut them on Fri, right?

    Do you have/use different formulas for water allowance based on bodyfat % and LBM? If I eat 16x LBM in kilos at 4% vs 7%, what is the difference in water allowance? Does that question make sense?
    http://jagillbodybuilding.blogspot.com/

  5. #5
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagill View Post
    This is why we start big time with the white potatos (+GDA) on wednesday and then back them off on Thurs and cut them on Fri, right?

    Do you have/use different formulas for water allowance based on bodyfat % and LBM? If I eat 16x LBM in kilos at 4% vs 7%, what is the difference in water allowance? Does that question make sense?

    The difference is 23 years of experience watching x amount of carbs react a certain way in hundreds of bodybuilders over these years to learn this.

    You spit out #'s and talk as if your now a teacher and prep guru and you have more than a few weeks under this protocol. Stop doing that.

    Thats how the game telephone works. By time it gets down the line it all screwed up.

    Nothing personal.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsta View Post
    The difference is 23 years of experience watching x amount of carbs react a certain way in hundreds of bodybuilders over these years to learn this.

    You spit out #'s and talk as if your now a teacher and prep guru and you have more than a few weeks under this protocol. Stop doing that.

    Thats how the game telephone works. By time it gets down the line it all screwed up.

    Nothing personal.
    I'm looking back through my post--what did I say that implied that I'm a teacher and guru now?

    I am the first to acknowledge that I am VERY young in this sport and don't make any claims of expertise or experience. I was just trying to learn more about the intricacies of the protocol.

    My only use of the numbers in that particular post was to clarify my question (and if I botched the numbers, sorry), not to imply that I'm an exepert or experienced in this protocol.

    I know it's not personal.
    http://jagillbodybuilding.blogspot.com/

  7. #7
    Behemoth johngorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagill View Post
    I'm looking back through my post--what did I say that implied that I'm a teacher and guru now?

    I am the first to acknowledge that I am VERY young in this sport and don't make any claims of expertise or experience. I was just trying to learn more about the intricacies of the protocol.

    My only use of the numbers in that particular post was to clarify my question (and if I botched the numbers, sorry), not to imply that I'm an exepert or experienced in this protocol.

    I know it's not personal.

  8. #8
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagill View Post
    I'm looking back through my post--what did I say that implied that I'm a teacher and guru now?

    I am the first to acknowledge that I am VERY young in this sport and don't make any claims of expertise or experience. I was just trying to learn more about the intricacies of the protocol.

    My only use of the numbers in that particular post was to clarify my question (and if I botched the numbers, sorry), not to imply that I'm an exepert or experienced in this protocol.

    I know it's not personal.
    Not just here but elsewhere but nevermind.....
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  9. #9
    Spotter TEAM SKIP's Avatar
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    Glad to see you're still making friends, Tipsta. : )

    Wondered where you had been (seriously) as I hadn't seen you around.

    Skip
    TrueProtein Sponsored Athlete http://www.TEAMSKIP.net

  10. #10
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEAM SKIP View Post
    Glad to see you're still making friends, Tipsta. : )

    Wondered where you had been (seriously) as I hadn't seen you around.

    Skip
    Keep your friends close to you and your enemies even closer. Thats what I've always been told.

    Tore a meniscus pretty bad with a complex tear of the posterior horn and body segment of the medial meniscus having both vertical as well as horizontal damage. To add to that had to have some bone shaved to clean things up and I cant even walk 100%, 8 weeks later, let alone train...

    They found thickening of the Medial Collateral Ligament with adjacent edema consistant with capsular scarring.

    There were also issues with an impaction injury within the Anteromedial Femoral Condyle with no evidence of a discrete Osteochondral defect.

    There was a 2cm Popliteal cyst as well as one that had ruptured recently as fluid was noted along the posterior margin of the medial head of the gastrocnemius.


    Other than that things are just peachy keen!
    Last edited by Tipsta; April 1st, 2009 at 09:04 AM.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  11. #11
    Beast connstellation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsta View Post
    Keep your friends close to you and your enemies even closer. Thats what I've always been told.

    Tore a meniscus pretty bad with a complex tear of the posterior horn and body segment of the medial meniscus having both vertical as well as horizontal damage. To add to that had to have some bone shaved to clean things up and I cant even walk 100%, 8 weeks later, let alone train...

    They found thickening of the Medial Collateral Ligament with adjacent edema consistant with capsular scarring.

    There were also issues with an impaction injury within the Anteromedial Femoral Condyle with no evidence of a discrete Osteochondral defect.

    There was a 2cm Popliteal cyst as well as one that had ruptured recently as fluid was noted along the posterior margin of the medial head of the gastrocnemius.


    Other than that things are just peachy keen!

    OK, THAT ^ sucks! This is the first I've seen the full list of your damage, Tip. You're going to have a lot of rehab ahead of you.
    SnakeBite Racing

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by becks View Post
    Use what you have been eating all the way through the diet as you know how your body reacts.


    If you use complex carbs through your diet then simply increase the amount.

    If you refeed each week using simple carbs then use the same carbs. Know how long it takes for your body to expel the water and look your best for pre-judging.
    I agree!
    TEAM P/RR/S ELITE
    www.fitcorps.net

  13. #13

    Default

    Although I like to take a more conservative approach to the carbing up process...I do agree with Tipsta in that if you're going to use simple or "simpler" carbs, do that early in your carb up process and then utilize complex carbs.
    TEAM P/RR/S ELITE
    www.fitcorps.net

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsta View Post
    Keep your friends close to you and your enemies even closer. Thats what I've always been told.

    Tore a meniscus pretty bad with a complex tear of the posterior horn and body segment of the medial meniscus having both vertical as well as horizontal damage. To add to that had to have some bone shaved to clean things up and I cant even walk 100%, 8 weeks later, let alone train...

    They found thickening of the Medial Collateral Ligament with adjacent edema consistant with capsular scarring.

    There were also issues with an impaction injury within the Anteromedial Femoral Condyle with no evidence of a discrete Osteochondral defect.

    There was a 2cm Popliteal cyst as well as one that had ruptured recently as fluid was noted along the posterior margin of the medial head of the gastrocnemius.


    Other than that things are just peachy keen!
    \

    Sally...

    JK!

    get better.. so we can see u in ur leapord trunks again

  15. #15
    Bro Scientist Tipsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by connstellation View Post
    OK, THAT ^ sucks! This is the first I've seen the full list of your damage, Tip. You're going to have a lot of rehab ahead of you.
    Actually not really as Rehab is really just personal training for the injured and I have 100% full range of motion. Rehab is more for people that have not done any muscle building and due to the surgery need to strengthen the surrounding area. I as well as many of us do not fit that bill. However other types of therapy will be important such as Stim/Ultrasound/Vasocompression...etc. as well as deep therapy to break up the surrounding muscle guarding. I have my own therapy machines thanks to a family member who does Rehab for the NHL. My issues are just the bone shaving at this point as its still sore to the touch.
    TRAIN HARD AND WIN EASY!!!
    Co-Promoter of the NPC "Royal Palm Classic"

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by TEAM SKIP View Post
    Glad to see you're still making friends, Tipsta. : )

    Wondered where you had been (seriously) as I hadn't seen you around.

    Skip
    Honestly, it was kind of nice reading people help out and give advice on these boards without purposefully being a d-bag about it. But, now that he's back and seeing how he responds to people, I would expect nothing less coming from a person like him

    Sporto
    IFPA Natural Professional Bodybuilder
    Core Nutritionals Sales Rep

  17. #17
    Beast connstellation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipsta View Post
    Actually not really as Rehab is really just personal training for the injured and I have 100% full range of motion. Rehab is more for people that have not done any muscle building and due to the surgery need to strengthen the surrounding area. I as well as many of us do not fit that bill. However other types of therapy will be important such as Stim/Ultrasound/Vasocompression...etc. as well as deep therapy to break up the surrounding muscle guarding. I have my own therapy machines thanks to a family member who does Rehab for the NHL. My issues are just the bone shaving at this point as its still sore to the touch.

    You have your own TENS unit, I take it? Never liked the thing myself.
    SnakeBite Racing

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