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Thread: SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS

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    Super Moderator heavyiron's Avatar
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    Default SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS

    I have been on a cruise dose of 280mg per week of Testosterone Cypionate and decided I would try injecting my testosterone subcutaneously. I have never injected testosterone any other way than Intramuscularly until today. I decided to use up some pharm grade propionate that has been sitting around so I loaded up a 29 guage slin pin with 40mg of prop. This was 40 units as the prop is 100mg/ml. I warmed up the testosterone in a cup of hot water and swirled it around until it was very warm. It took about 2 minutes to load the pin as the oil is somewhat thick. I injected 2 inches to the right of my belly button into a fold of skin. The injection took about 20 seconds. I felt nothing except the needle penetrating the skin. Several hours later I now feel a slight burning sensation at the injection site. I will pin 40mg/40 units every day and record my experience here. The science for this protocol follows;

    STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE INJECTIONS

    M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
    Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
    Hamilton, ON, Canada

    Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous (SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however, its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using SC therapy. Patients and methods: Between May and September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving 10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism.

    Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for 1 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL 200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks.

    Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration is not officially approved by Health Canada. T levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection in week 6 and 8.

    At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels were measured however; the week 12 data are still being collected.

    Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit 0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l (p0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T (25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1 (27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with no adverse effects.

    Conclusions: A once-week SC injection of 50100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further evaluation.
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    Iron Addict marcus300's Avatar
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    Ive heard certain guys who rate this method of injecting over IM, ive never tried it so i am open to debate on it but the amounts us bodybuilders use would bother me using SQ to be honest, but its great to have a test subject Heavyiron! and I will be watching to see your verdict
    marcus

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    Super Moderator heavyiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus300 View Post
    Ive heard certain guys who rate this method of injecting over IM, ive never tried it so i am open to debate on it but the amounts us bodybuilders use would bother me using SQ to be honest, but its great to have a test subject Heavyiron! and I will be watching to see your verdict
    Yeah, I can't imagine pinning cycle doses this way but for cruise doses it should be fine. But we will see!
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    Iron Addict marcus300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Yeah, I can't imagine pinning cycle doses this way but for cruise doses it should be fine. But we will see!
    Very true and I will wait and see how you respond
    marcus

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    this would be a nice alternative to those of us on hrt. looking forward to your results on this.

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    Iron Addict TrashMan's Avatar
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    500mg of cyp would be interesting to try...
    WARNING: I'm probably not going to be nice in my responses. This is just for role playing entertainment and fictional.

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    Super Moderator heavyiron's Avatar
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    It should work no problem but this will be an interesting experiment. If 40 units a day does not cause any problems with prop then using cyp at 200mg/ml that would equal 560mg per week. I still have some discomfort at the site and a small knot but time will tell how well this works.

    My hope is to maintain very even blood androgen levels doing this. I hope those even androgen levels will reduce sides like acne. I also was thinking this would be an ideal way for ladies to use aas. Some adventursome women use Prop at 35-70 mg weekly.
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    GeorgeForemanRules
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    IM injections are almost dead in the medical field, sub Q and IV is the way to go. Sub Q for steroid use is fine IMO, as long as you are educated on the difference of absorbiton rates.

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    Super Moderator heavyiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForemanRules View Post
    IM injections are almost dead in the medical field, sub Q and IV is the way to go. Sub Q for steroid use is fine IMO, as long as you are educated on the difference of absorbiton rates.
    There are several things I hope to find out doing this. The first is how much volume can comfortably be injected right under the skin. In the trial they shot as much as .5 ml once weekly. I will shoot .4 ml every day for a while and experiment with various volumes after that.

    I also wonder how much this will slow down the release of the ester. I know HCG is reportedly slowed down when shooting sub q verses IM.
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    Iron Addict TrashMan's Avatar
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    I use to shot HCG in the morning, and drowning girls by bedtime!
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    Spotter AESIRIAN's Avatar
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    IM injection is dead in the Healthcare arena accept for out-patient services i.e. flu shots, cortical steriods, one time bolus antibiotics.
    My only caution to this practice would be; make sure the site is clean, make sure your deep enough to avoid leaching out of the product. (DON'T DAB!), use the smallest pin possible...due to the frequency of this stick, there is a risk of infection sub-Q that is lessen with IM and IV. Staph is a normal flora on the skin but not under its protective layer. Also, if sub-Q injection turns into a blister,(not deep enough) there is an increased risk of Strep infection if wound is not properly treated.

    Heavy, I have no doubt these are issues you'll take precautions to prevent. I list them for the rest of you who may consider testing this out on yourself before hearing what feedback Heavy has to conclude on this practice.
    I think it is an interesting proposal, but I think this practice should be limited to those with significant experience and skill in this area.
    I think .5ml would be fine. You could even pin 2 sites approx 3cm apart to get the 1ml. Also, this would make monitoring the site and any treatment needed localized.
    What have you done today to insure your success tomorrow?!

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    GeorgeForemanRules
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    There are several things I hope to find out doing this. The first is how much volume can comfortably be injected right under the skin. In the trial they shot as much as .5 ml once weekly. I will shoot .4 ml every day for a while and experiment with various volumes after that.

    I also wonder how much this will slow down the release of the ester. I know HCG is reportedly slowed down when shooting sub q verses IM.
    I did a 3cc shot subq for a pt last week of heparin.

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    Super Moderator heavyiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Himetime View Post
    IM injection is dead in the Healthcare arena accept for out-patient services i.e. flu shots, cortical steriods, one time bolus antibiotics.
    My only caution to this practice would be; make sure the site is clean, make sure your deep enough to avoid leaching out of the product. (DON'T DAB!), use the smallest pin possible...due to the frequency of this stick, there is a risk of infection sub-Q that is lessen with IM and IV. Staph is a normal flora on the skin but not under its protective layer. Also, if sub-Q injection turns into a blister,(not deep enough) there is an increased risk of Strep infection if wound is not properly treated.

    Heavy, I have no doubt these are issues you'll take precautions to prevent. I list them for the rest of you who may consider testing this out on yourself before hearing what feedback Heavy has to conclude on this practice.
    I think it is an interesting proposal, but I think this practice should be limited to those with significant experience and skill in this area.
    I think .5ml would be fine. You could even pin 2 sites approx 3cm apart to get the 1ml. Also, this would make monitoring the site and any treatment needed localized.
    Thank you for the feedback. I have taken hundreds of subcutaneous injections but never with aas. It definately feels different from shooting a water based medicine like HCG. I chose a 1/2 inch pin as that should be deep enough with the volume I am using. I will shoot 2 inches to the left of my belly button tomorow and see how it goes from there.
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    Super Moderator heavyiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForemanRules View Post
    I did a 3cc shot subq for a pt last week of heparin.
    What location on the body? Is that oil or water based?
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    So heavy whats say I only have 23gage 1 1/2 needles would these work? And if I read correctly you pinch a inch or so of skin/body fat and then injected slowly ?

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    Super Moderator heavyiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio3200 View Post
    So heavy whats say I only have 23gage 1 1/2 needles would these work? And if I read correctly you pinch a inch or so of skin/body fat and then injected slowly ?
    seems a little big for subq. Go buy some insulin syringes. 29 guage 1/2 inch. They sell them at every grocery store and most states do not require a prescription.
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    Spotter AESIRIAN's Avatar
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    Absorbtion rate will be significantly slower than that of heparin, (saline/alcohol solution). I have administered many sub-Q products, nothing oil-based comes to mind.

    Sorry if I stepped on Foremans apportunity to answer that question...
    What have you done today to insure your success tomorrow?!

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