Nick Walker is an absolute beast!

[Howard]

In general I agree. The case of Nick vs Hunter is different. Nick camp are meatheads meatheads who believe in work and the underdog. Hunter's camp is name recognition , nostalgia and entitlement.

Good points.

I noticed these camps are quite biased for their pro and don't entertain any critical feedback.
I swear, if you said Nick has a wide waist or Hunter needs a better back, they'd throw you down and stomp on you.

[lifepulse]

In general I agree. The case of Nick vs Hunter is different. Nick camp are meatheads meatheads who believe in work and the underdog. Hunter's camp is name recognition , nostalgia and entitlement.

Meh, not in my case. I’m not a huge fan of either of them per se (or maybe a better way of putting it- I think they both have great physiques, in their own ways, and I am interested to see where each of them eventually takes things over time; point being, I’m not particularly partial to either guy).

That said, the idea that Nick Walker represents “hard work”- I think Hunter trains WAY harder than Nick, from what I have seen at least. Watching the recent videos of Walker, now that he is actually training WITH Jansen- and Jansen is smoking him on almost every single lift, and Nick is just “blown away” by it—

Go watch some of those recent training videos. Look at Jansen’s ACTUAL expression in his eyes when Walker finishes a set “to failure”- thinking of the fact that Jansen use to train with DALLAS, and the difference in how they approach the gym-


Nick is funny as hell, and seems cool, and has a lot of potential, blah blah blah- but “hard worker”, yeah, I don’t know that I’m ready to lay that title on him just yet. He’s honestly the laziest trainer I’ve seen since Shawn Rhoden.


Again, I like Walker, so I don’t want this to be “shit talking”. But I feel like my 12-year-old daughter could train circles around him. Watch Iain, watch Hollingshead, watch Wilkens, watch Clarida, watch Walker- and then tell me again that Nick is a “hard worker”. Reality is, he’s a growth hormone experiment with good form and moderate intensity, at best.


-David

[Howard]

Meh, not in my case. I’m not a huge fan of either of them per se (or maybe a better way of putting it- I think they both have great physiques, in their own ways, and I am interested to see where each of them eventually takes things over time; point being, I’m not particularly partial to either guy).

That said, the idea that Nick Walker represents “hard work”- I think Hunter trains WAY harder than Nick, from what I have seen at least. Watching the recent videos of Walker, now that he is actually training WITH Jansen- and Jansen is smoking him on almost every single lift, and Nick is just “blown away” by it—

Go watch some of those recent training videos. Look at Jansen’s ACTUAL expression in his eyes when Walker finishes a set “to failure”- thinking of the fact that Jansen use to train with DALLAS, and the difference in how they approach the gym-


Nick is funny as hell, and seems cool, and has a lot of potential, blah blah blah- but “hard worker”, yeah, I don’t know that I’m ready to lay that title on him just yet. He’s honestly the laziest trainer I’ve seen since Shawn Rhoden.


Again, I like Walker, so I don’t want this to be “shit talking”. But I feel like my 12-year-old daughter could train circles around him. Watch Iain, watch Hollingshead, watch Wilkens, watch Clarida, watch Walker- and then tell me again that Nick is a “hard worker”. Reality is, he’s a growth hormone experiment with good form and moderate intensity, at best.


-David

Interesting post and topic. Why do you think so many BB fans care about how a pro trains?
That never gets judged when they compete.
BUT , for so many who follow BB, it's a big deal that's really based more on image then reality ( as you pointed out).

[alvertos]

I could be wrong here but rhoden looked stoned all the time,maybe that is to blame for his performance?not a fan of either but probably hunter is better.

[lifepulse]

Interesting post and topic. Why do you think so many BB fans care about how a pro trains?
That never gets judged when they compete.
BUT , for so many who follow BB, it's a big deal that's really based more on image then reality ( as you pointed out).

I imagine it’s a few different things. First off, we like to “think” that effort gets rewarded- and in a lot of ways it DOES- the person who diets the hardest usually wins, the person who trains the hardest over time usually wins (at least that seemed to be the case for a long time, with Yates and Coleman, even with Branch, etc.). So we associate “hardest working” with “SHOULD win”- subconsciously, that seems “right” and “fair”, even though it’s not the reality much of the time. Same is true in other sports- genetic phenoms often outperform hard workers, and “making it” in the NFL is as much a matter of having the right genetics, as it is working and training hard. But we like to think we have control over our own destinies- the idea that somebody could “be the best”, even while being lazy, strikes us as “unfair”. Plus, it DOES seem to be true they natural genetic gifts PLUS extreme work ethic, ends up leading to “the greats of all time” (Coleman- Jordan, etc.).


I think it’s also because we all chase the same dream (to some degree), so it is easier to identify with somebody who had to work hard, than with someone who got there through “genetic gifts”- since most of us don’t have top-tier genetics.


Plus, being a BB fan these days is t JUST watching the contest, but instead, is “following the lifestyle of the athletes”- so those who consistently work hard, are more entertaining abs inspiring to watch, than those who phone it in.

I think that mindset is starting to change with the next generation- people seem to not care so much HOW somebody gets there , just THAT they get there- we saw a lot of people defending Heath’s approach over the years, and saying it was stupid to be like Yates and Coleman- so I think there is a cultural shift going on here as well.

-David

[Howard]

I imagine it’s a few different things. First off, we like to “think” that effort gets rewarded- and in a lot of ways it DOES- the person who diets the hardest usually wins, the person who trains the hardest over time usually wins (at least that seemed to be the case for a long time, with Yates and Coleman, even with Branch, etc.). So we associate “hardest working” with “SHOULD win”- subconsciously, that seems “right” and “fair”, even though it’s not the reality much of the time. Same is true in other sports- genetic phenoms often outperform hard workers, and “making it” in the NFL is as much a matter of having the right genetics, as it is working and training hard. But we like to think we have control over our own destinies- the idea that somebody could “be the best”, even while being lazy, strikes us as “unfair”. Plus, it DOES seem to be true they natural genetic gifts PLUS extreme work ethic, ends up leading to “the greats of all time” (Coleman- Jordan, etc.).


I think it’s also because we all chase the same dream (to some degree), so it is easier to identify with somebody who had to work hard, than with someone who got there through “genetic gifts”- since most of us don’t have top-tier genetics.


Plus, being a BB fan these days is t JUST watching the contest, but instead, is “following the lifestyle of the athletes”- so those who consistently work hard, are more entertaining abs inspiring to watch, than those who phone it in.

I think that mindset is starting to change with the next generation- people seem to not care so much HOW somebody gets there , just THAT they get there- we saw a lot of people defending Heath’s approach over the years, and saying it was stupid to be like Yates and Coleman- so I think there is a cultural shift going on here as well.

-David

Wow, another great post. You really need to write a book, 100% serious on that.

I just think differently then most other meathedz. LOL
For example, when I met Lee Haney in person back in 1985, I was blown away.
I walked away knowing I'd would never look like him, no matter what I took or how hard I tried.

The next year , I met Rich Gaspari and wasn't nearly as impressed. His overall body structure looked a lot more "normal".
To me Lee Haney doing a lat spread or dbl bi was an awesome physique . Gaspari flexing his shredded glutes was an odd, freakish look.

I tend to be a bigger fan of those with incredible God given talent , from singing to academics to sports.
It's a real pleasure to sit back and observe a gifted person " do their thing".

It's like admiring a beautiful girl walking by.
I don't care if she was born with a pretty face...I just enjoy looking at it.

[lifepulse]

Wow, another great post. You really need to write a book, 100% serious on that.

I just think differently then most other meathedz. LOL
For example, when I met Lee Haney in person back in 1985, I was blown away.
I walked away knowing I'd would never look like him, no matter what I took or how hard I tried.

The next year , I met Rich Gaspari and wasn't nearly as impressed. His overall body structure looked a lot more "normal".
To me Lee Haney doing a lat spread or dbl bi was an awesome physique . Gaspari flexing his shredded glutes was an odd, freakish look.

I tend to be a bigger fan of those with incredible God given talent , from singing to academics to sports.
It's a real pleasure to sit back and observe a gifted person " do their thing".

It's like admiring a beautiful girl walking by.
I don't care if she was born with a pretty face...I just enjoy looking at it.

Your last two paragraphs- I get that, and tend to agree, in most fields. But bodybuilding is a little different, in that it thrives on “selling the dream”. Not all fans of great opera singers, are people who are trying to sing opera- not all fans of football players, try to play football. But in bodybuilding, pretty much all of the fans, are themselves trying to be bodybuilders (or some stripe or other). So I think there is “less appreciation for the true phenomenon”, and more “worship of the guy who looks like me”.
-Dsvid

[Griff11]

Meh, not in my case. I’m not a huge fan of either of them per se (or maybe a better way of putting it- I think they both have great physiques, in their own ways, and I am interested to see where each of them eventually takes things over time; point being, I’m not particularly partial to either guy).

That said, the idea that Nick Walker represents “hard work”- I think Hunter trains WAY harder than Nick, from what I have seen at least. Watching the recent videos of Walker, now that he is actually training WITH Jansen- and Jansen is smoking him on almost every single lift, and Nick is just “blown away” by it—

Go watch some of those recent training videos. Look at Jansen’s ACTUAL expression in his eyes when Walker finishes a set “to failure”- thinking of the fact that Jansen use to train with DALLAS, and the difference in how they approach the gym-


Nick is funny as hell, and seems cool, and has a lot of potential, blah blah blah- but “hard worker”, yeah, I don’t know that I’m ready to lay that title on him just yet. He’s honestly the laziest trainer I’ve seen since Shawn Rhoden.


Again, I like Walker, so I don’t want this to be “shit talking”. But I feel like my 12-year-old daughter could train circles around him. Watch Iain, watch Hollingshead, watch Wilkens, watch Clarida, watch Walker- and then tell me again that Nick is a “hard worker”. Reality is, he’s a growth hormone experiment with good form and moderate intensity, at best.


-David

I was being obtuse. I agree about the Jansen thing and am not a fan of what he does. Truthfully I split in fans are those who feel Hunter has been pre ordained and is being handed the keys to the kingdom based on his last name. Myself and others feel that if his name name was Hunter Smith he wouldn't have placed ahead of Justin Rodriguez at last year's Olympia or have gotten straight firsts this weekend vs Brett. One placement is random three contests and three placements that seem a little suspicious is a pattern. I remember Kuclo getting a lot of heat for the 2014 Arnold Brazil win. Hunter it just seems accepted.

At least with Nick there is a sense that he earned his placements and shows up in condition. Will he live to see 30 I honestly don't know and that's a bit tragic

[lifepulse]

I was being obtuse. I agree about the Jansen thing and am not a fan of what he does. Truthfully I split in fans are those who feel Hunter has been pre ordained and is being handed the keys to the kingdom based on his last name. Myself and others feel that if his name name was Hunter Smith he wouldn't have placed ahead of Justin Rodriguez at last year's Olympia or have gotten straight firsts this weekend vs Brett. One placement is random three contests and three placements that seem a little suspicious is a pattern. I remember Kuclo getting a lot of heat for the 2014 Arnold Brazil win. Hunter it just seems accepted.

At least with Nick there is a sense that he earned his placements and shows up in condition. Will he live to see 30 I honestly don't know and that's a bit tragic

I get all of that with Hunter, and no arguments from me here. Same time- didn’t Nick live with his parents the whole time- was t he accused of having his parents buy his gh for him, like long before he went pro?- didn’t he move out of his house, into a house provided to him by Jansen, with all of his PEDs provided by Revive? I mean, yeah, he was t give. A name- but as far as I can tell, he was given absolutely everything else. Soooo, I’m. If buying that dichotomy. They’re both golden boys in their own rights.

-David

[Griff11]

I get all of that with Hunter, and no arguments from me here. Same time- didn’t Nick live with his parents the whole time- was t he accused of having his parents buy his gh for him, like long before he went pro?- didn’t he move out of his house, into a house provided to him by Jansen, with all of his PEDs provided by Revive? I mean, yeah, he was t give. A name- but as far as I can tell, he was given absolutely everything else. Soooo, I’m. If buying that dichotomy. They’re both golden boys in their own rights.

-David

Great point. The Jansen plan 20 ius a day isn't cheap.

[lifepulse]

Great point. The Jansen plan 20 ius a day isn't cheap.

Please forgive the typos over the last day-- I typically pride myself on clean writing and grammar, but was traveling, so trying to text fast on a phone, lol.


Overall, I'm more INTERESTED to see where Walker goes with all of this-- but only because I have "trainwreck" vibes, as sad as that is.


-David

[GeorgeUK]

Interesting post and topic. Why do you think so many BB fans care about how a pro trains?
That never gets judged when they compete.
BUT , for so many who follow BB, it's a big deal that's really based more on image then reality ( as you pointed out).

I think it's more to do with the fact that we ALL train. We can relate to the training style of a pro and how it compares to us. When a pro does incline barbell it's pretty much the same as how we'd do it. If a pro describes a split, it will be similar to what we do (If you train). Not many sports/endeavours can the fan do pretty much the exact same training as the top person in the world.

[Beti ona]

Why do you think so many BB fans care about how a pro trains?
That never gets judged when they compete.
BUT , for so many who follow BB, it's a big deal that's really based more on image then reality ( as you pointed out).

Pumping Iron was a bodybuilding promotion, it focused on the preparation for Mister Olympia, those guys were (acting or not) training hard. That was what motivated so many to go to lift irons to build herculean physiques.

Then you have the 90s with Dorian and all the Okabe documentaries on Coleman.

All of that is more influential than guys competing with a stellar physique, at the end of the day, only a small% of lifters end up on a stage flexing muscles.

[Howard]

Your last two paragraphs- I get that, and tend to agree, in most fields. But bodybuilding is a little different, in that it thrives on “selling the dream”. Not all fans of great opera singers, are people who are trying to sing opera- not all fans of football players, try to play football. But in bodybuilding, pretty much all of the fans, are themselves trying to be bodybuilders (or some stripe or other). So I think there is “less appreciation for the true phenomenon”, and more “worship of the guy who looks like me”.
-Dsvid

Good point but I don't think this is unique to bodybuilding.
For example, most rappers need "street cred" to gain fan approval .
Older country music fans , often complain that today's country stars aren't "real country."

All I know is, every top pro BB was born with the genetic talent to be a top pro.
I also know I'm NOT going to "hang out" or train with any pro I see at contests.

This is why , as a fan ,I only care about a pros physique .

The best example I can offer as "proof" is my limited fan interaction with Dexter.
Back in 2008, I briefly met Dexter when he guest posed at a show in ATL.
I bought a signed pic from Dexter and he took a pic with me.
When I told him I enjoy meeting him, he mumbled ok and walked off.

I posted that pic here and Dexter looks like I just shot his dog.
I dunno, maybe he was tired or felt ill , but he looked kinda disgusted LOL.
Dexter's disgusted look was so bad, the Mayor and I have joked about that pic for years now.

Despite my lackluster interaction with Dex, I've always felt he was one of the greatest bodybuilders.
I'm a huge fan of his physique and was thrilled to see him live at the 2008 Arnold.

Yeah David, maybe I am bit different from my fellow meathedz ?

[Howard]

Pumping Iron was a bodybuilding promotion, it focused on the preparation for Mister Olympia, those guys were (acting or not) training hard. That was what motivated so many to go to lift irons to build herculean physiques.

Then you have the 90s with Dorian and all the Okabe documentaries on Coleman.

All of that is more influential than guys competing with a stellar physique, at the end of the day, only a small% of lifters end up on a stage flexing muscles.

You're right about Pumping Iron's influence on bodybuilding. It sure helped get me into the gym and contest stage
I'm friends with Ken Sprague Sr , the guy who owned GOLDS's when it was filmed.

FYI, Ken told me , if George Butler couldn't get Arnold to star in it, he wasn't going to make the film.
Take out Arnold's personality and antics and it becomes a boring documentary on bodybuilding .

To raise funds to produce Pumping Iron, George Butler had the top guys pose at a NYC museum of Art.
They had Zane, Waller, Robby, Arnold, etc all posing like Greek statues on a slowly revolving column top.
Butler knew the wealthy "artsy-fartsy" patrons would only fund it, if bodybuilders looked like classic statues.