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  • #91
    Originally posted by lifepulse View Post


    Sitting on the couch at the end of the day, knowing you need sleep, but being too tired to walk to the bedroom-- then finding that you just spent the last 15 minutes THINKING about walking to the bedroom, but still haven't moved. At that point, it ain't no fun no more, lol.


    -David
    OMG! That's exactly how I felt when I last competed. I can vividly remember that bone deep fatigue , like it was yesterday ...BUT it was 25 years ago
    I saw a star, reached for it...and MISSED

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Howard View Post

      OMG! That's exactly how I felt when I last competed. I can vividly remember that bone deep fatigue , like it was yesterday ...BUT it was 25 years ago

      Once you hit that point where you just don't even feel like you're in control of your own body-- it's a car being steered by somebody, but you're no longer at the wheel-- it isn't fun, lol.


      -David

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by lifepulse View Post


        Once you hit that point where you just don't even feel like you're in control of your own body-- it's a car being steered by somebody, but you're no longer at the wheel-- it isn't fun, lol.


        -David
        Auto pilot and that waking up every couple of hours in a sweat isn't fun either

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by lifepulse View Post


          Point being, please name for us the bodybuilders who are continuing to push themselves to get into TRUE CONTEST SHAPE, for 30-40 years-- and you will find, they don't exist. There are a few anomalies like Robbie Robinson, who continued to get IN VERY GOOD SHAPE for decades-- but you won't find a single ACTUAL competitor, who ACTUALLY hit PEAK conditioning, multiple times-- over a course of 30-40 years. You have Dexter. He did it a long time. Not many others.


          NONE of us "need a competition to push ourselves"-- ANYBODY who eats in a progressive manner, and trains in a progressive manner, IS "pushing themselves". It's a question of HOW MUCH you are pushing yourself. In most instances, "pushing yourself" feels great UP UNTIL A CERTAIN POINT, and after that, it just feels wrong, scary, not fun. If you can squat 315 for 10, putting 365 on the bar for reps is "pushing yourself"-- but putting 600lbs on the bar, is just stupid, and not something any semi-sane person would do. It goes from "pushing yourself", to just "chasing self harm", and there is a fine line between the two. And the same can be true with nutrition and dieting.


          Not to be a dick, Beti, but you have never been in contest shape. Listen to the stories here. When you have to literally wrap your feet in gauze and bandages, just to walk across the room, it's simply not a state ANYBODY really "wants" to exist in.


          Guys with super fast metabolisms can stay very lean, but even dudes like Dexter eventually had to turn to lots of cardio, and diets that made them feel "not so great". You have somebody like Michael Locket, who supposedly stays that lean while eating junk food year round (a true genetic outlier)-- but outside of that one single example, what other pro has the sort of metabolism where they can get in contest shape "without it being painful"?


          My former training partner had one of the fastest metabolisms I've ever seen, and as I would prep him, his carbs would just go HIGHER, week after week after week. With that said, by end of prep he was eating a TON of food-- but still, felt like absolute shit ALL of the time, simply from being so lean.



          Forcing your body into a spot it simply doesn't want to be in-- which is what true contest conditioning is, for 99.99999999999999999% of the human population-- is going to feel like shit. You block that out while doing it, because "discipline matters"-- but it doesn't change the reality that it pretty much ruins the entire rest of your life, while doing it. After doing it once to "see what it's like", after that, you're typically going to require some form of extrinsic motivator (a competition-- a photoshoot-- trying to market yourself and build a business, etc.), to EVER feel like "pushing yourself" to that degree again.




          -David
          There are many amateur competitors who are still beyond 50 and 60, is it normal? No. There are also some guys in their 70s and 80s deadlifting tons of weight. There are world records every year for older people running marathons, doing gymnastics, etc ...

          Most athletes stop competing after an age, why? Because they are tired and in pain, they have other projects to pursue, they feel that they no longer belong to that place, they have nothing more to learn and they have squeezed out all the knowledge about themselves that they can transfer to other athletes or take that wisdom to other fields.

          It is about what there is to gain and what there is to lose. Each individual has a unique path. For someone who feels bored in life, outside of such an absorbing sport, someone who finds no value or interest in common things ... the scale clearly tips towards enduring that pain.

          From your last posts, I feel like you have "woken up" and are somewhat disappointed in bodybuilding. I can see some frustration in you.

          If you set higher standards, you will achieve better results. That's why I say you have to keep in mind to be competitive, even if you are not going to compete or get that look, but you need that mentality.

          And although it is painful, no one is going to be in contest form for weeks or months, that's unsustainable, but anyone can go on an extreme diet for 16 weeks, rest and eat more for 5 months, and go back to another diet. It is assumed that after years of training and dieting, we know how to endure pain and suffering better than ordinary people.

          Well, taking photos and comparing your progress can be an extrinsic motivation? No, because those photos, unless you share them somewhere, are for you.
          http://betionastore.es/

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Griff11 View Post

            People greatly underestimate their bodyfat levels. Unless you've been in legit contest shape you don't really know. When it hurts to sit or you know you are close. Until then it's hypothetical. Another thing being contest ready is far from healthy and how long can you really hold it? The lack of a contest would stop any sane individual from actually reaching it
            ​​
            I always knew when the lots of veins came out in my lower abs I was thereabouts.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Beti ona View Post

              There are many amateur competitors who are still beyond 50 and 60, is it normal? No. There are also some guys in their 70s and 80s deadlifting tons of weight. There are world records every year for older people running marathons, doing gymnastics, etc ...

              Most athletes stop competing after an age, why? Because they are tired and in pain, they have other projects to pursue, they feel that they no longer belong to that place, they have nothing more to learn and they have squeezed out all the knowledge about themselves that they can transfer to other athletes or take that wisdom to other fields.

              It is about what there is to gain and what there is to lose. Each individual has a unique path. For someone who feels bored in life, outside of such an absorbing sport, someone who finds no value or interest in common things ... the scale clearly tips towards enduring that pain.

              From your last posts, I feel like you have "woken up" and are somewhat disappointed in bodybuilding. I can see some frustration in you.

              If you set higher standards, you will achieve better results. That's why I say you have to keep in mind to be competitive, even if you are not going to compete or get that look, but you need that mentality.

              And although it is painful, no one is going to be in contest form for weeks or months, that's unsustainable, but anyone can go on an extreme diet for 16 weeks, rest and eat more for 5 months, and go back to another diet. It is assumed that after years of training and dieting, we know how to endure pain and suffering better than ordinary people.

              Well, taking photos and comparing your progress can be an extrinsic motivation? No, because those photos, unless you share them somewhere, are for you.
              Beti, I'm not trying to be smart ass or dismissive of your views .
              BUT, you need to fully prep and compete in a bodybuilding contest to fully understand.
              THAT reality is a totally different EXPERIENCE then you're trying to describe.

              It's kinda like when people do those " boot camp" style workouts .
              I've heard people tell me, they've had a real boot camp experience from doing it.

              I actually went thru USMC boot camp and it's NOT even close.
              I saw a star, reached for it...and MISSED

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Beti ona View Post

                There are many amateur competitors who are still beyond 50 and 60, is it normal? No. There are also some guys in their 70s and 80s deadlifting tons of weight. There are world records every year for older people running marathons, doing gymnastics, etc ...

                Most athletes stop competing after an age, why? Because they are tired and in pain, they have other projects to pursue, they feel that they no longer belong to that place, they have nothing more to learn and they have squeezed out all the knowledge about themselves that they can transfer to other athletes or take that wisdom to other fields.

                It is about what there is to gain and what there is to lose. Each individual has a unique path. For someone who feels bored in life, outside of such an absorbing sport, someone who finds no value or interest in common things ... the scale clearly tips towards enduring that pain.

                From your last posts, I feel like you have "woken up" and are somewhat disappointed in bodybuilding. I can see some frustration in you.

                If you set higher standards, you will achieve better results. That's why I say you have to keep in mind to be competitive, even if you are not going to compete or get that look, but you need that mentality.

                And although it is painful, no one is going to be in contest form for weeks or months, that's unsustainable, but anyone can go on an extreme diet for 16 weeks, rest and eat more for 5 months, and go back to another diet. It is assumed that after years of training and dieting, we know how to endure pain and suffering better than ordinary people.

                Well, taking photos and comparing your progress can be an extrinsic motivation? No, because those photos, unless you share them somewhere, are for you.

                It's not a matter of being "woke", it's a matter of being real. I'm not disappointed in bodybuilding-- I just feel I have more perspective on it, having first been a fan, then an active competitor, then somebody who helped a lot of other people to compete, then somebody who personally talked to and interviewed a lot of the top pros-- you just learn more as you go, rather than having an idealistic "outsider perspective"-- all theory, no practice-- which is where I find fault with a lot of your views, Beti. You are smart, but you have no real-world experience at all, and thus, it is nothing but theoretical pontification. (Not coincidentally, EVERYBODY ELSE in this thread who has those same credentials-- fan, competitor, an talks to other pros-- shares my views on this subject. There's something to be said for REAL WORLD application, brother.)


                We weren't talking about "do some people still compete (get shredded) into their 50s or 60s". We KNOW that people do that.


                We were talking about, ARE THERE PEOPLE WHO CONSISTENTLY GET INTO CONTEST SHAPE, DECADE AFTER DECADE, WITHOUT HAVING AN ACTUAL CONTEST TO PREP FOR. And the point is, those people don't exist, as far as we know. I've certainly never seen them. Maybe once, or twice-- but then, after that, most lose an "intrinsic motivation" to push their bodies that hard, without an extrinsic motivator.


                THAT was the discussion at point. Stop with the switch-and-bait.


                -David

                Comment


                • #98
                  True contest condition in the modern era means clearly striated glutes, It takes a LOT of suffering for almost anyone to get that lean, and doing it without losing muscle in the process, even with gear, is a monster of a challenge.
                  Muscular Development Online Editor
                  FB: Ron Harris IG: RonHarrisMuscle Author "EvilX10: 10 Tales of Extreme Darkness"

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Ron Harris View Post
                    True contest condition in the modern era means clearly striated glutes, It takes a LOT of suffering for almost anyone to get that lean, and doing it without losing muscle in the process, even with gear, is a monster of a challenge.
                    Yup. The sort of conditioning that was expected in Arnold's day, yes, it's reasonable that people would willingly diet down to that, repeatedly, "just for the sake of doing it", without a contest to worry about. But MODERN conditioning-- no, it feels like death, nobody purposely chases that, without a contest to do at the end (at least, not many times-- maybe once, just to "say they did it").


                    -David

                    Comment


                    • hard work, dedication, no drug

                      Comment


                      • The striated glutes thing is difficult because some guys have that in the off season whereas some never get it no matter how lean they are.

                        The point of trying to keep muscle when dieting is well made. This doubly hard when natural, most natural guys lose a significant amount of muscle to get in shape.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Big Beat View Post
                          The striated glutes thing is difficult because some guys have that in the off season whereas some never get it no matter how lean they are.

                          The point of trying to keep muscle when dieting is well made. This doubly hard when natural, most natural guys lose a significant amount of muscle to get in shape.
                          I have been to a few pro natural shows, and the guys who placed best were usually not big at all, but shredded out of their skulls. I don't think they worry as much about losing mass, because condition seems to be the top attribute those judges reward.
                          Muscular Development Online Editor
                          FB: Ron Harris IG: RonHarrisMuscle Author "EvilX10: 10 Tales of Extreme Darkness"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lifepulse View Post

                            Yup. The sort of conditioning that was expected in Arnold's day, yes, it's reasonable that people would willingly diet down to that, repeatedly, "just for the sake of doing it", without a contest to worry about. But MODERN conditioning-- no, it feels like death, nobody purposely chases that, without a contest to do at the end (at least, not many times-- maybe once, just to "say they did it").


                            -David
                            I can stay in 70's contest condition year-round! LOL
                            Muscular Development Online Editor
                            FB: Ron Harris IG: RonHarrisMuscle Author "EvilX10: 10 Tales of Extreme Darkness"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lifepulse View Post


                              It's not a matter of being "woke", it's a matter of being real. I'm not disappointed in bodybuilding-- I just feel I have more perspective on it, having first been a fan, then an active competitor, then somebody who helped a lot of other people to compete, then somebody who personally talked to and interviewed a lot of the top pros-- you just learn more as you go, rather than having an idealistic "outsider perspective"-- all theory, no practice-- which is where I find fault with a lot of your views, Beti. You are smart, but you have no real-world experience at all, and thus, it is nothing but theoretical pontification. (Not coincidentally, EVERYBODY ELSE in this thread who has those same credentials-- fan, competitor, an talks to other pros-- shares my views on this subject. There's something to be said for REAL WORLD application, brother.)


                              We weren't talking about "do some people still compete (get shredded) into their 50s or 60s". We KNOW that people do that.


                              We were talking about, ARE THERE PEOPLE WHO CONSISTENTLY GET INTO CONTEST SHAPE, DECADE AFTER DECADE, WITHOUT HAVING AN ACTUAL CONTEST TO PREP FOR. And the point is, those people don't exist, as far as we know. I've certainly never seen them. Maybe once, or twice-- but then, after that, most lose an "intrinsic motivation" to push their bodies that hard, without an extrinsic motivator.


                              THAT was the discussion at point. Stop with the switch-and-bait.


                              -David
                              Have you seen Lee Labrada's legs? They look very low in body fat. He has no plans to compete but he has a motivation to look in shape. Vince Taylor looks very, very good too.

                              Other guys like Jay or Dennis James prefer to stay bigger, although away from their size as competitors.

                              We have seen both ways, those who prefer to cling to mass and size, have more health problems, many have died: Kovacs, Nasser...

                              If you can do like Dorian and detach yourself from your identity as a body, that's great, but your ego must have other values ​​to hold onto, like yoga, weed, and all that lifestyle. Maybe that's not for everyone.

                              I am not an idealist at all, I am just describing how the human mind works. The human mind seeks anything, even extreme sacrifice, before nothingness, emptiness, or boredom.

                              Once again, if you don't have many interests in life, you are almost forced to do something, if your vision is limited, you will continue to diet and lift extreme weights. Coleman is a clear example of this, even someone with a successful company and several children, that is, vital values ​​for an ordinary man, has not been enough to get out of his way towards self-destruction.

                              Many join the army, that is, they are going to die and kill because their lives in their communities feel incomplete ob absurd. No, not everyone goes for that stupid ideals propaganda of defending a country or bringing democracy and all those lies.
                              http://betionastore.es/

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Beti ona View Post

                                Have you seen Lee Labrada's legs? They look very low in body fat. He has no plans to compete but he has a motivation to look in shape. Vince Taylor looks very, very good too.

                                Other guys like Jay or Dennis James prefer to stay bigger, although away from their size as competitors.

                                We have seen both ways, those who prefer to cling to mass and size, have more health problems, many have died: Kovacs, Nasser...

                                If you can do like Dorian and detach yourself from your identity as a body, that's great, but your ego must have other values ​​to hold onto, like yoga, weed, and all that lifestyle. Maybe that's not for everyone.

                                I am not an idealist at all, I am just describing how the human mind works. The human mind seeks anything, even extreme sacrifice, before nothingness, emptiness, or boredom.

                                Once again, if you don't have many interests in life, you are almost forced to do something, if your vision is limited, you will continue to diet and lift extreme weights. Coleman is a clear example of this, even someone with a successful company and several children, that is, vital values ​​for an ordinary man, has not been enough to get out of his way towards self-destruction.

                                Many join the army, that is, they are going to die and kill because their lives in their communities feel incomplete ob absurd. No, not everyone goes for that stupid ideals propaganda of defending a country or bringing democracy and all those lies.

                                This is all 100% true and insightful. That said- Labrada doesn’t walk around in contest shake, and neither does Vince Taylor. So again, the only point they was made- that your are now furiously trying to argue around- is that nobody gets into true modern day context conditioning, repeatedly, without a contest to prep for. If you can find a single example proving otherwise, cool, point made. What we were talking about, pages and pages ago, was whether people actually did they or not. I don’t think they do. Yes, they continue to push themselves to high standards and pursue goals- but NOT THAT standard or goal- simple as that, Beti.


                                -David

                                Comment

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