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Are These Guys Natural???

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  • Noel Fuller
    replied
    Originally posted by Howard View Post

    NOBODY can be 100% certain if the 1945-1955 legends had any chemical help or not.
    But as you posted, let's examine any silly mistruths or BS and stick with historical FACTS.

    1. The first anabolic steroid D-bol, didn't pass FDA approval for distribution until 1958.
    Dr Ziegler first synthesized D-bol circa 1955 .
    Steve Reeves won Mr America in 1947 and the Universe in 1950.

    * Unless Reeves invented a time machine , it was IMPOSSIBLE for him to use D-bol or any steroid.
    That's because they weren't invented yet!

    2. Russian lifters were rumored to use forms of synthetic testosterone in the 1952 Olympic wt lifting.
    * This was later verified as the first official use of athletes using real testosterone as PED.

    The USA team still got the most medals in wt lifting, but the rapid progress of the USSR was scrutinized.
    According to Bob Hoffman, a US Olympic doctor, noticed an odd looking protrusion on the lower ab region of many Russian lifters.
    He reasoned it must be caused by inflammation of the urethra and bladder region from excess testosterone .

    This incident promoted the need for a "safer" form of testosterone for USA wt lifters.
    Dr Ziegler went to work and within a few years , methylated the testosterone molecule . This is the first steroid aka dianabol .
    Please note, the USSR didn't compete in the 1948 games.

    3. Prior to 1950, real testosterone wasn't common and (mostly) limited to various medical uses.
    Many of the early , "so-called" testosterones were dubious forms of crushed bull or pig testicles.

    A man like Reeves had the rare genetics for building a top level physique.
    His small waist, wide shoulders with small joints and sweeping muscle bellies were his gifts.
    Testosterone would only increase his muscle mass. It would NOT have an impact on his incredible shape.

    Therefor, based on what was actually available, plus his genetics , it's unlikely Reeves used any "juice" when he won
    the 1947 America or 1950 Universe.
    Cliff Clavin

    Leave a comment:


  • Noel Fuller
    replied
    Originally posted by lifepulse View Post


    Lol, oh, I didn't realize you meant THAT route. I thought you meant you had info on Reeves and whatnot.


    That said, I know you're good at what you do, Noel, and have nothing but respect for your work, so I have no desire to have a pissing match; I'm sure you would win. Was merely trying to make a point about genetic potential-- which I'm assuming you could back up, given how many people you have worked with over the years?


    As for sucking Adam's dick (for attention, at that)-- when he asked me to do the podcast, I initially told him no, I wasn't interested, because my training business was going so well/I was so busy already. But he was an old friend and former training partner, and just wanted to shoot the shit once a week with different guests. So I tagged along for fun, and pretty much let it be his baby. That said, I think you know me well enough (I hope) to know that I had no desire to be the blow-hard that Adam often was, calling people out and starting drama needlessly; and after a few years of it, ducked out for exactly that reason.



    -David
    the fight's commenced either get to fighting or get out of the way

    Leave a comment:


  • lifepulse
    replied
    Originally posted by Noel Fuller View Post
    When you sucked Adams dick to get attention you lost all credibility

    Lol, oh, I didn't realize you meant THAT route. I thought you meant you had info on Reeves and whatnot.


    That said, I know you're good at what you do, Noel, and have nothing but respect for your work, so I have no desire to have a pissing match; I'm sure you would win. Was merely trying to make a point about genetic potential-- which I'm assuming you could back up, given how many people you have worked with over the years?


    As for sucking Adam's dick (for attention, at that)-- when he asked me to do the podcast, I initially told him no, I wasn't interested, because my training business was going so well/I was so busy already. But he was an old friend and former training partner, and just wanted to shoot the shit once a week with different guests. So I tagged along for fun, and pretty much let it be his baby. That said, I think you know me well enough (I hope) to know that I had no desire to be the blow-hard that Adam often was, calling people out and starting drama needlessly; and after a few years of it, ducked out for exactly that reason.


    -David

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard
    replied
    Originally posted by Big Beat View Post
    Its important to expose the mistruths of bodybuilding.

    Its important to people interested in the history of bodybuilding. An awful lot is placed on these guys being natural.

    Its always worth exposing bullshit.
    NOBODY can be 100% certain if the 1945-1955 legends had any chemical help or not.
    But as you posted, let's examine any silly mistruths or BS and stick with historical FACTS.

    1. The first anabolic steroid D-bol, didn't pass FDA approval for distribution until 1958.
    Dr Ziegler first synthesized D-bol circa 1955 .
    Steve Reeves won Mr America in 1947 and the Universe in 1950.

    * Unless Reeves invented a time machine , it was IMPOSSIBLE for him to use D-bol or any steroid.
    That's because they weren't invented yet!

    2. Russian lifters were rumored to use forms of synthetic testosterone in the 1952 Olympic wt lifting.
    * This was later verified as the first official use of athletes using real testosterone as PED.

    The USA team still got the most medals in wt lifting, but the rapid progress of the USSR was scrutinized.
    According to Bob Hoffman, a US Olympic doctor, noticed an odd looking protrusion on the lower ab region of many Russian lifters.
    He reasoned it must be caused by inflammation of the urethra and bladder region from excess testosterone .

    This incident promoted the need for a "safer" form of testosterone for USA wt lifters.
    Dr Ziegler went to work and within a few years , methylated the testosterone molecule . This is the first steroid aka dianabol .
    Please note, the USSR didn't compete in the 1948 games.

    3. Prior to 1950, real testosterone wasn't common and (mostly) limited to various medical uses.
    Many of the early , "so-called" testosterones were dubious forms of crushed bull or pig testicles.

    A man like Reeves had the rare genetics for building a top level physique.
    His small waist, wide shoulders with small joints and sweeping muscle bellies were his gifts.
    Testosterone would only increase his muscle mass. It would NOT have an impact on his incredible shape.

    Therefor, based on what was actually available, plus his genetics , it's unlikely Reeves used any "juice" when he won
    the 1947 America or 1950 Universe.

    Leave a comment:


  • Noel Fuller
    replied
    When you sucked Adams dick to get attention you lost all credibility

    Leave a comment:


  • Noel Fuller
    replied
    Originally posted by lifepulse View Post


    Enlighten us? For real.


    -David
    I have always destroyed anyone you trained, you talk a lot which most of these dipshits think is intellect but really you fall short

    Leave a comment:


  • lifepulse
    replied
    Originally posted by Noel Fuller View Post

    also clueless

    Enlighten us? For real.


    -David

    Leave a comment:


  • Noel Fuller
    replied
    Originally posted by lifepulse View Post


    I guess I agree, in a sense, with the overall idea of "knowledge is power", and "righting the wrongs of the lie-filled past".



    Same time, I tend to think that this speculation just drives dumb thinking.



    Point is, in the 13 years I worked as an in-person personal trainer, I prepped numerous individuals who carried more size, were leaner, and had better shape, than either of the guys in this video. To that end, the REAL question people want answered is, "Is this type of physique POSSIBLE naturally?" The answer is a resounding, "Yes-- and actually, you can get WAY more jacked than this, naturally, with the right genetics, if you ALSO know how to train and eat right (which these two only did, to a limited degree; they were pioneers for their time, but living in the dark ages of the science of the sport).



    -David
    also clueless

    Leave a comment:


  • Noel Fuller
    replied
    Originally posted by Howard View Post
    I met Steve Reeves when I was an AAU Mr America judge in the early 90's.
    Even as an older man, he had a unique "presence ". A real gentleman.

    His big contest wins ( Mr A, Mr U ) were several years BEFORE the FDA approval of dianabol *1958).

    Since the others featured in the clip were from the same era, they couldn't have used "steroids".
    D-bol was the first steroid, developed by Dr Ziegler in the mid 50's.

    Now it's possible they used some forum of injectable testosterone , but that's doubtful.
    It was pretty a rare drug 70-75 years ago and they wouldn't have access to much, if anything at all.

    Genetic talent , hard training and proper nutrition has always been to real keys to building a decent physique.

    I'm not in the same league as the legends and never won anything worth bragging about.
    But, on little to no "gear" , I beat plenty of guys who were "juiced to the gills" in UN-tested npc contests.

    I still cracks me up, that so many gym rats, think they'll be a top pro , IF they find the magic potion.
    god you are clueless

    Leave a comment:


  • lifepulse
    replied
    Originally posted by Big Beat View Post
    Its important to expose the mistruths of bodybuilding.

    Its important to people interested in the history of bodybuilding. An awful lot is placed on these guys being natural.

    Its always worth exposing bullshit.

    I guess I agree, in a sense, with the overall idea of "knowledge is power", and "righting the wrongs of the lie-filled past".



    Same time, I tend to think that this speculation just drives dumb thinking.



    Point is, in the 13 years I worked as an in-person personal trainer, I prepped numerous individuals who carried more size, were leaner, and had better shape, than either of the guys in this video. To that end, the REAL question people want answered is, "Is this type of physique POSSIBLE naturally?" The answer is a resounding, "Yes-- and actually, you can get WAY more jacked than this, naturally, with the right genetics, if you ALSO know how to train and eat right (which these two only did, to a limited degree; they were pioneers for their time, but living in the dark ages of the science of the sport).



    -David

    Leave a comment:


  • Big Beat
    replied
    Its important to expose the mistruths of bodybuilding.

    Its important to people interested in the history of bodybuilding. An awful lot is placed on these guys being natural.

    Its always worth exposing bullshit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard
    replied
    Originally posted by Griff11 View Post
    Who cares
    Agree 100% .

    Reeves and company were great for their era.
    Every sport has it's greats from a previous era.
    Unless you invent a f'n time machine, it's silly to speculate on crap you'll never know.

    Leave a comment:


  • Griff11
    replied
    Who cares

    Leave a comment:


  • mayor of bodybuilding
    replied
    Originally posted by Squat Junkie View Post

    Off course not. But he looked way healthier.
    True,even 80s and 90s guys looked their age and had a healthier look!

    Leave a comment:


  • Squat Junkie
    replied
    Originally posted by Giles View Post

    Reeves wouldn’t beat Ramy. No chance.
    Off course not. But he looked way healthier.

    Leave a comment:

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