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The original Mentzer heavy duty workout

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  • #16
    Originally posted by triceps View Post

    Oh, well you got me there
    No biggie...another example of how even humor can be "lost in translation" via internet communication.
    I saw a star, reached for it...and MISSED

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Howard View Post

      No biggie...another example of how even humor can be "lost in translation" via internet communication.
      Yes, Mentzer was great, but so was Arnold, I have experimented with both high volume and high intensity training methods, we learn about our bodies

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by triceps View Post

        Yes, Mentzer was great, but so was Arnold, I have experimented with both high volume and high intensity training methods, we learn about our bodies
        Very true ! The one thing the high intensity method proved, was the avg trainer could make good gains with a lot less volume.
        25 years ago, I had a very busy schedule with work and trained 3 days week ,using the basic heavy duty push/pull split.
        On my non-lifting days, I ran or did the stair climber, HARD,for 30 min. THAT was it, combined with a low calorie diet.

        The final result had me as ripped and muscular looking as ever and I was 100% drug free for 8 yrs at that point.
        I got 1st in my class at a big natural contest and lost the overall 4-3.
        On the drive home, I was euphoric, but knew it was time to hang up the trunks after 18 yrs of competing.

        The experience made me question just how much time training was really needed to make gains in BB?
        My Zane pic ( *posted too many times LOL) was after a few weeks of spartan diet and 2 hr , higher rep training.
        Of course, I was in my late 20's and just completed a moderate cycle of ( "winnie V").

        In a related example, the first good bodybuilders, I knew outside a contest, used 3 day week HIT .
        Tony Kingsbury and Chris Pouline were training partners and won the AAU Mr NH in ( 1979, 80 )
        It's possible they used some juice, but I was in the Manchester YMCA gym when they trained a few times.

        They did 1-2 pre-exhaust super sets for each body part after a warm up set ( leg ext-leg press ; side laterals- overhead press, etc)
        Then we'd all do a lot of practice posing in a separate area with a back/front mirror in the back store room.
        EVERY good bodybuilder in that gym used a version of high intensity and they did great in contests.

        I think they eventually split their workouts in half ( push/pull "heavy duty" split) and still trained , 3 days week.

        It was my direct observation that these men maxed out their genetic potential as bodybuilders.
        I'm sure modern drugs like HGH could have resulted in more gains, but not from more time / vol training.

        It is my belief that beyond genetics and drugs, HIT training and sound nutrition are the most efficient way to gain muscle.
        In my experience, high volume traing can work but it wastes a lot of time .
        Yates is the best example of maximum gains with minimum time in the gym.



        I saw a star, reached for it...and MISSED

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Howard View Post

          Very true ! The one thing the high intensity method proved, was the avg trainer could make good gains with a lot less volume.
          25 years ago, I had a very busy schedule with work and trained 3 days week ,using the basic heavy duty push/pull split.
          On my non-lifting days, I ran or did the stair climber, HARD,for 30 min. THAT was it, combined with a low calorie diet.

          The final result had me as ripped and muscular looking as ever and I was 100% drug free for 8 yrs at that point.
          I got 1st in my class at a big natural contest and lost the overall 4-3.
          On the drive home, I was euphoric, but knew it was time to hang up the trunks after 18 yrs of competing.

          The experience made me question just how much time training was really needed to make gains in BB?
          My Zane pic ( *posted too many times LOL) was after a few weeks of spartan diet and 2 hr , higher rep training.
          Of course, I was in my late 20's and just completed a moderate cycle of ( "winnie V").

          In a related example, the first good bodybuilders, I knew outside a contest, used 3 day week HIT .
          Tony Kingsbury and Chris Pouline were training partners and won the AAU Mr NH in ( 1979, 80 )
          It's possible they used some juice, but I was in the Manchester YMCA gym when they trained a few times.

          They did 1-2 pre-exhaust super sets for each body part after a warm up set ( leg ext-leg press ; side laterals- overhead press, etc)
          Then we'd all do a lot of practice posing in a separate area with a back/front mirror in the back store room.
          EVERY good bodybuilder in that gym used a version of high intensity and they did great in contests.

          I think they eventually split their workouts in half ( push/pull "heavy duty" split) and still trained , 3 days week.

          It was my direct observation that these men maxed out their genetic potential as bodybuilders.
          I'm sure modern drugs like HGH could have resulted in more gains, but not from more time / vol training.

          It is my belief that beyond genetics and drugs, HIT training and sound nutrition are the most efficient way to gain muscle.
          In my experience, high volume traing can work but it wastes a lot of time .
          Yates is the best example of maximum gains with minimum time in the gym.


          I hear ya, I believe that as long as we get stronger while doing a bodybuilding rep range (10 reps+) we continue to grow. I don't recommend HIT training for enhanced bodybuilders because it could lead to injury. When I found out Dennis Wolf was doing HIT training, the Yates version, it kinda broke my heart because I knew he was going to get injured. Both HIT and high volume have their merits

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Bob S View Post
            IMO, Mentzers greatest contribution was he let us know we had a choice in how we trained. HD, worked better for some than others but at least it was something different.
            Mike (or rather Arthur Jones) devised an extreme training system and the opposite of the Weider system.

            This opened the minds of the athletes, they were not forced to follow a single system, they now had 2 options, and more importantly, they could have a wider range of knowledge and try different approaches just by varying the frequency, volume and intensity...
            http://betionastore.es/

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Howard View Post

              I first ordered his original heavy duty booklet around 1978 .
              I was an undergrad chemistry major and had limited time and energy for BB.
              This made me frustrated trying to mimic the 2 plus hr daily workouts of the era.

              The Heavy Duty 4 -5hrs a week plan was a breath of fresh air.

              I was ready to quit competitive BB in the mid 80's due to similar frustration.
              As a last resort I opted to do the Heavy Duty routine.

              THAT combined with small cycles of winnie V , allowed me to get 1st in 6 contests in 1986.
              Granted, all but one was a " Mr Podunk" , but it was better then quitting in my 20's .
              I was always reluctant to work out too long, something in me felt that it was better to do the harder lifts than to do tons of sets and exercises.

              Of course, this is not always ideal or sustainable, and sometimes it's a good idea to reduce stress and rest your joints by emphasizing volume and pumping work.
              http://betionastore.es/

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Howard View Post

                Very true ! The one thing the high intensity method proved, was the avg trainer could make good gains with a lot less volume.
                25 years ago, I had a very busy schedule with work and trained 3 days week ,using the basic heavy duty push/pull split.
                On my non-lifting days, I ran or did the stair climber, HARD,for 30 min. THAT was it, combined with a low calorie diet.

                The final result had me as ripped and muscular looking as ever and I was 100% drug free for 8 yrs at that point.
                I got 1st in my class at a big natural contest and lost the overall 4-3.
                On the drive home, I was euphoric, but knew it was time to hang up the trunks after 18 yrs of competing.

                The experience made me question just how much time training was really needed to make gains in BB?
                My Zane pic ( *posted too many times LOL) was after a few weeks of spartan diet and 2 hr , higher rep training.
                Of course, I was in my late 20's and just completed a moderate cycle of ( "winnie V").

                In a related example, the first good bodybuilders, I knew outside a contest, used 3 day week HIT .
                Tony Kingsbury and Chris Pouline were training partners and won the AAU Mr NH in ( 1979, 80 )
                It's possible they used some juice, but I was in the Manchester YMCA gym when they trained a few times.

                They did 1-2 pre-exhaust super sets for each body part after a warm up set ( leg ext-leg press ; side laterals- overhead press, etc)
                Then we'd all do a lot of practice posing in a separate area with a back/front mirror in the back store room.
                EVERY good bodybuilder in that gym used a version of high intensity and they did great in contests.

                I think they eventually split their workouts in half ( push/pull "heavy duty" split) and still trained , 3 days week.

                It was my direct observation that these men maxed out their genetic potential as bodybuilders.
                I'm sure modern drugs like HGH could have resulted in more gains, but not from more time / vol training.

                It is my belief that beyond genetics and drugs, HIT training and sound nutrition are the most efficient way to gain muscle.
                In my experience, high volume traing can work but it wastes a lot of time .
                Yates is the best example of maximum gains with minimum time in the gym.


                My only problem with HD is that to reach total failure you need machines and you cannot use many free weights. And I believe that free weights are the best way to strengthen your body and build a solid base.
                http://betionastore.es/

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by triceps View Post
                  I hear ya, I believe that as long as we get stronger while doing a bodybuilding rep range (10 reps+) we continue to grow. I don't recommend HIT training for enhanced bodybuilders because it could lead to injury. When I found out Dennis Wolf was doing HIT training, the Yates version, it kinda broke my heart because I knew he was going to get injured. Both HIT and high volume have their merits
                  Most get injured from using jerky, explosive lift or going to heavy, etc.
                  The proper HIT/ heavy duty protocol was a 2 sec positive lift and 3-4 sec negative with brief pause in the contracted position.

                  Fatigue and/or the desire to work the muscle harder often causes the lifter to loosen form and risk injury.
                  I saw a star, reached for it...and MISSED

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Beti ona View Post



                    My only problem with HD is that to reach total failure you need machines and you cannot use many free weights. And I believe that free weights are the best way to strengthen your body and build a solid base.
                    There is some science back truth on the need of free wts and explosive , heavy lifts to build "strength".
                    The problem is this is based on sports performance and amount lifted, NOT muscle size alone.

                    In my opinion, Jones proved muscle building is different from strength building.
                    I saw a star, reached for it...and MISSED

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Beti ona View Post

                      I was always reluctant to work out too long, something in me felt that it was better to do the harder lifts than to do tons of sets and exercises.

                      Of course, this is not always ideal or sustainable, and sometimes it's a good idea to reduce stress and rest your joints by emphasizing volume and pumping work.
                      In my personal gym observations, most lifters mistake intensity for lifting heavy with explosive forms and spotter asst reps, etc.

                      Proper high intensity uses , slow, strict reps under full control for at least 8 or more reps.
                      Done correctly, high intensity is LESS risky for joints and provides an awesome pump.

                      For example, most gym rats think doing 2-3 reps with some generous spotter asst reps added on is high intensity. FYI, it's not.
                      Last edited by Howard; September 26, 2021, 02:34 PM.
                      I saw a star, reached for it...and MISSED

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Beti ona View Post

                        I was always reluctant to work out too long, something in me felt that it was better to do the harder lifts than to do tons of sets and exercises.

                        Of course, this is not always ideal or sustainable, and sometimes it's a good idea to reduce stress and rest your joints by emphasizing volume and pumping work.
                        The one factor science alone can't measure is "enjoyment".
                        We all have movements and set/rep schemes we just ENJOY doing.

                        Far better to work hard & consistent on something we enjoy, then be half-assed on some science backed routine
                        I saw a star, reached for it...and MISSED

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Howard View Post

                          Most get injured from using jerky, explosive lift or going to heavy, etc.
                          The proper HIT/ heavy duty protocol was a 2 sec positive lift and 3-4 sec negative with brief pause in the contracted position.

                          Fatigue and/or the desire to work the muscle harder often causes the lifter to loosen form and risk injury.
                          I'm just tired of enhanced bodybuilders getting hurt by HIT, enhanced bodybuilders should NOT use HIT. Safety is first

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            In 1978 my college roommate headed to Venice during spring break to check out Gold's which was on Pacific Avenue at the time. We got to Golds about 11 AM and were greeted by Eddie Giuliani at the desk and he let us look around. Many of top bodybuilders including Mentzer Bros were training that day, but it was Robbie Robinson and Tony Pearson who impressed us the most. Those two guys were training like animals doing set after set on cable row with only about 150 pounds for 15 reps. Their lats were pumped beyond belief, where as Mentzer's were training their heavy duty style slow and heavy like sloths. Also, they were talking a lot between sets, while Robbie and Tony did not say a word!!!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              In 1978 my college roommate and I headed to Venice during spring break to check out Gold's which was on Pacific Avenue at the time. We got to Golds about 11 AM and were greeted by Eddie Giuliani at the desk and he let us look around. Many of top bodybuilders including Mentzer Bros were training that day, but it was Robbie Robinson and Tony Pearson who impressed us the most. Those two guys were training like animals doing set after set on cable row with only about 150 pounds for 15 reps. Their lats were pumped beyond belief, where as Mentzer's were training their heavy duty style slow and heavy like sloths. Also, they were talking a lot between sets, while Robbie and Tony did not say a word!!!

                              Comment

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