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Make BB safer ? Damned if you do ( or do NOT) act...

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Beti ona View Post

    But with all those health checks, they still have fallen ill.

    I do not know if I mentioned it, I am in favor of health checks. And yes, there should be health insurance of some kind for these competitors.
    No system is perfect and some recent investigative sports journalists have shown team docs "looking the other way".
    In the end , the name of the game is $$ and the show must go on ..
    I saw a star, reached for it...and MISSED

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    • #32
      It needs to start with the judging, it's been broken for years. The health care system will not pay for these test, anyone who thinks so has no idea how the system works. I spend close to $15,000 a year on medical bills and I have the best insurance I can get in New England.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by wildbill View Post
        It needs to start with the judging, it's been broken for years. The health care system will not pay for these test, anyone who thinks so has no idea how the system works. I spend close to $15,000 a year on medical bills and I have the best insurance I can get in New England.
        Lifepulse ( David) is 100% correct the judging criteria is intentionally vague.
        If you have clear, transparent criteria , it's too easy for anyone to challenge .

        You're also correct, that no health ins company is going to provide league coverage
        for those on a laundry list of drugs .
        I saw a star, reached for it...and MISSED

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Beti ona View Post

          I don't know what Valliere says, but I didn't say that nothing should be done. What I'm saying is that I don't see that it can be done at the moment and that it is something that really works to avoid health problems.

          Can you change the judgment criteria? You always say that in the end the judges fixate on the biggest and hardest athletes, and that this happens in all classes. Can we reward smaller and softer people but with better forms? Thats works in figure or bikini, but in harder divisions?

          It seems that in female bodybuilding they have reached a peak, a point of equilibrium and are not getting bigger and bigger. The Russian girl, amazonka, thank God she did not continue competing, she looked fake and too freaky (in bad sense), something like Ramy in the female version.

          All good points, Beti. And my REAL point with ALL of this, is that it is time for SMART PEOPLE (like you, me, and many others) to stop just "upholding the system as it is"-- and at least open it up for discussion.


          I don't know where to "start". I don't think you can "not reward the biggest and hardest athletes", per se. But I think a few things COULD be done, as starting points, that have consistently NOT been done-- that could start moving things in a better direction:

          1) we know how physiology works, and what "looks real" and what "does not". If you have a body part that LOOKS silly and overblown-- most likely from Synthol or implants-- then they give you a crappy placing. Doesn't matter if they KNOW if it's fake, or not-- if it LOOKS STUPID AND DISPROPORTIONATE, it gets a DQ. This means that "people who set the bar with genetic anomolies that are supposedly real, but that somehow, magically, nobody else can achieve"-- Nicholas Vuilloid and his "rollerblading accident shoulders", Shanique Grant and her "amazing shoulders", all the new wellness girls with fake asses, Ramy with HIS fake shoulders, Hadi with HIS fake shoulders--

          That entire group, gets disqualified, no questions asked. Not "put in 3rd". Nope. If you LOOK FAKE-- since we ALL KNOW WHAT GOES ON IN THE SPORT-- then you lose. If that means "you just have genetically amazing gifts, and are getting penalized for it"-- like Nicholas Vuilloid claimed-- or even IF Ramy's quads ARE real, and NOT filled with SEO-- either way, who cares-- it goes against the entire history of the grain of how the human physique was admired (sculpture in ancient Greek days and Roman days DID sort of look like Ronnie Coleman, but DID NOT sort of look like Ramy, AND THERE IS A REASON FOR THAT). This would start returning a "degree of sanity" to things, right off the bat.


          2) if a competitor is in his 20s, and growing at the rate of Dallas, or Nick Walker-- well, they are clearly abusing things in a way that is GOING to lead to problems, VERY young-- and as such, call them out on it. Ronnie took 20-30 YEARS getting to his peak form. So did Dorian. So did MOST OF THOSE DUDES-- and they lived to tell about it. Trying to get there in THREE YEARS-- because that is now "the standard", due to social media hype and the IFBB "ushering in the next Mr. Olympia"-- it is literally promoting that young people just kill themselves.


          How EXACTLY do we implement those two ideas, in a "fair and equitable way"?


          Dude, I don't know.


          But I DO know that it SOMEHOW has to return to "being about the work", and NOT "being about the drugs". Now, it is ONLY the latter-- and as such, if you don't regulate that, people will just keep dying.


          -David

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Beti ona View Post

            But with all those health checks, they still have fallen ill.

            I do not know if I mentioned it, I am in favor of health checks. And yes, there should be health insurance of some kind for these competitors.
            Health checks would help but I don’t think they will do anything. Guys will continue to push hard and not pay attention to their health. They are competitors and want to win. Momo died and they tested for diuretics and guys found ways to beat the test. How many guys would trade 10 years off your life for ONE Olympia win
            SMOKE WEED EVERYDAY
            2016 NBA Champs...Cleveland Cavs

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by lifepulse View Post


              All good points, Beti. And my REAL point with ALL of this, is that it is time for SMART PEOPLE (like you, me, and many others) to stop just "upholding the system as it is"-- and at least open it up for discussion.


              I don't know where to "start". I don't think you can "not reward the biggest and hardest athletes", per se. But I think a few things COULD be done, as starting points, that have consistently NOT been done-- that could start moving things in a better direction:

              1) we know how physiology works, and what "looks real" and what "does not". If you have a body part that LOOKS silly and overblown-- most likely from Synthol or implants-- then they give you a crappy placing. Doesn't matter if they KNOW if it's fake, or not-- if it LOOKS STUPID AND DISPROPORTIONATE, it gets a DQ. This means that "people who set the bar with genetic anomolies that are supposedly real, but that somehow, magically, nobody else can achieve"-- Nicholas Vuilloid and his "rollerblading accident shoulders", Shanique Grant and her "amazing shoulders", all the new wellness girls with fake asses, Ramy with HIS fake shoulders, Hadi with HIS fake shoulders--

              That entire group, gets disqualified, no questions asked. Not "put in 3rd". Nope. If you LOOK FAKE-- since we ALL KNOW WHAT GOES ON IN THE SPORT-- then you lose. If that means "you just have genetically amazing gifts, and are getting penalized for it"-- like Nicholas Vuilloid claimed-- or even IF Ramy's quads ARE real, and NOT filled with SEO-- either way, who cares-- it goes against the entire history of the grain of how the human physique was admired (sculpture in ancient Greek days and Roman days DID sort of look like Ronnie Coleman, but DID NOT sort of look like Ramy, AND THERE IS A REASON FOR THAT). This would start returning a "degree of sanity" to things, right off the bat.


              2) if a competitor is in his 20s, and growing at the rate of Dallas, or Nick Walker-- well, they are clearly abusing things in a way that is GOING to lead to problems, VERY young-- and as such, call them out on it. Ronnie took 20-30 YEARS getting to his peak form. So did Dorian. So did MOST OF THOSE DUDES-- and they lived to tell about it. Trying to get there in THREE YEARS-- because that is now "the standard", due to social media hype and the IFBB "ushering in the next Mr. Olympia"-- it is literally promoting that young people just kill themselves.


              How EXACTLY do we implement those two ideas, in a "fair and equitable way"?


              Dude, I don't know.


              But I DO know that it SOMEHOW has to return to "being about the work", and NOT "being about the drugs". Now, it is ONLY the latter-- and as such, if you don't regulate that, people will just keep dying.


              -David
              SMOKE WEED EVERYDAY
              2016 NBA Champs...Cleveland Cavs

              Comment


              • #37
                Just get blood work regularly and be well informed with the gear I guess?

                Taking poor quality gear or crazy doses, you’re going to run into problems at some point.
                MD Global Muscle Radio ep.40-https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-MIKWx8sAcw&t=5319s

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Giles View Post
                  Just get blood work regularly and be well informed with the gear I guess?

                  Taking poor quality gear or crazy doses, you’re going to run into problems at some point.

                  Blood work doesn't show the actual long-term problems, like heart enlargement and scarring to kidneys-- that sort of stuff usually requires serious diagnostic tests that insurance will rarely cover. That's part of the problem, at least in the States.


                  As for "getting regular blood work done"-- when? Ten weeks out? At that point, ANY competitor who got labs done, they would NOT be clean-- liver would be off, kidneys would be off, usually hematocrit is high, etc.-- SO, this doesn't really solve the problem.


                  99.9% of competitors are "taking poor quality gear or crazy doses"-- at least in the open-- so yeah, this is sort of the point, Giles.


                  On Bro Chat last week, Iaian and Fouad were getting into it. Iain was defending open drug use in the open, unrestricted. Fouad suggested labs. Iain pointed out, if labs were required, 90% of active competitors would have to quit. Fouad said, "So, are you saying that, in order to compete, you pretty much HAVE TO be committed to being unhealthy?"-- and Iain (who preps Bumstead, and knows the inside track better than most), said, "Yep, pretty much".


                  If the dudes at the top level are that self-aware and honest about it-- but people who COVER the sport (like you) are so idealistic as to think we should "all be using high-quality gear and moderate dosages"--


                  It just goes to show there is still a massive divide between the reality of the sport, and even what EDUCATED fans think. Giles, there is no way for an open men's BB to do things in a semi-healthy manner these ways, dude.


                  -David

                  Comment

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