Observations from watching this NPC nationals

[Howard]

Despite all the gym bros obsession with getting massive, I just saw a bunch of great physiques at lighter body wts.
Yes, the best pros tend to be pretty massive, but that's a rare handful.
Most gym bros never win a local NPC show, never mind getting on the Olympia stage.

Even at the national level, being ripped with great shape is REALLY important.
Plenty of top notch bodybuilders don't look huge walking around clothed or in sweats.

Now we have classic and MPD along with WPD, figure, bikini and wellness.
In all these divisions, shape and overall conditioning is more important then raw muscle size.

The majority of top competitors, in all divisions/classes at the nationals , won't be massive freaks.
Since that's the reality, why do so many THINK you need to be a massive freak to win a contest?

I've been to countless contests where some under 200 lb guy wins the overall.
The crowd will be filled with huge looking dudes, who'd get destroyed on stage by much smaller guys.
They always have the same mantra on needing to get bigger and take more juice, etc.

Sadly this quest for freakish mass rarely ends with any success in BB contests.
Those with charisma and ambition may end up making $$ hawking supps thru social media.

Meanwhile , much lighter guys will win the nationals in the lighter wt classes , MPD and classic.

Perhaps being a big freak is more important then winning contests for many hardcore BB's?
That's never made sense to me . Seeing this years nationals only reinforced my existing beliefs on BB contest success.

[lifepulse]

Howard, you have an incredible knack for spinning literally any topic whatsoever, to suit your ongoing agenda. We get it- drugs are bad and have gotten out of control. Quit pointing out the obvious, and think of a practical solution. It’s seriously tiring.

[GeorgeUK]

The average height is around 5ft 9
A mediocre bodybuider could quite realistically get to 240+ and diet down to LH
Guys in MW go offseason 210-220

None of these guys will look small in the off season and in the audience

It is true that there are avenues of getting pro cards at lighter classes, but in 99% of the cases NOBODY gives a shit about them once they get a pro card.

I guarantee that most people who didn't have a friend in the show probably just watched the LH, HW and SHW
I like Nate Spear and was curious about his progress

Big bodybuilders are what bodybuilders like to watch

[Beti ona]

At an amateur level, it is easier to see quality athletes, torn, dryest, without notable flaws ... in lighter categories.

But on a pro level, size has always been a determining factor and it's what fans and beginners find to be something to pursue, something inspiring.

Also, overall nationals champions are almost always from the 2 heaviest categories.

Amateur guys who look bad with a lot of size will not look better with a smaller size or worse condition.

So what is your point?

[Howard]

Howard, you have an incredible knack for spinning literally any topic whatsoever, to suit your ongoing agenda. We get it- drugs are bad and have gotten out of control. Quit pointing out the obvious, and think of a practical solution. It’s seriously tiring.

For starters, my original post had little to do with drug use.
It's about what type of body actually wins in NPC contests, even at the national level.

My point is winners in MPD, Classic and the lighter half of BB wt class will be national champs and earn pro card.
Meanwhile , countless gym bros, will toil away trying to get freaky big without winning anything.

[Howard]

The average height is around 5ft 9
A mediocre bodybuider could quite realistically get to 240+ and diet down to LH
Guys in MW go offseason 210-220

None of these guys will look small in the off season and in the audience

It is true that there are avenues of getting pro cards at lighter classes, but in 99% of the cases NOBODY gives a shit about them once they get a pro card.

I guarantee that most people who didn't have a friend in the show probably just watched the LH, HW and SHW
I like Nate Spear and was curious about his progress

Big bodybuilders are what bodybuilders like to watch

Good post and no question that size rules when you get to the pro ranks.
BUT, that's a dead end street for 99.9% who try to become pros .

It's as if the only thing that matters is how you do as a pro.
That always seemed like putting "the horse before the cart".

The reality is , most of the big bulky guys walking around, would get smoked on stage by the Bantam wts.
Yes, I know, I know, I know...IF they get ripped the big guys would now win in the contest. Maybe?
I've seen too many regional and local shows where much smaller, lighter guys destroy everyone on stage .

Vic Richards comes to mind here.
He was massive and in decent shape, BUT never competed as a pro BB.
Despite never competing as a pro, many of his fans thought he was a great pro. WTF?
I can't imagine soccer fans , thinking some guy who never played in the pro leagues, was a great pro.

Being big and freaky is fine, IF you can win contests.
Like any sport, who wins determines who's the best. Pretty simple , objective standard

[lifepulse]

For starters, my original post had little to do with drug use.
It's about what type of body actually wins in NPC contests, even at the national level.

My point is winners in MPD, Classic and the lighter half of BB wt class will be national champs and earn pro card.
Meanwhile , countless gym bros, will toil away trying to get freaky big without winning anything.

And then I guess that MY point, is that your (second and main) point, is tautological- for all practical purposes- and thus not really a “point”, so much as stating an obvious “fact”, that every single poster in this thread is already aware of. So why make it? I’m guessing so you can slide in your main, and recurring, point- we don’t need a lot of drugs. Somehow it always slides there, whether you intend it or not. And I agree. Point acknowledged. Now do something about it.

[Howard]

At an amateur level, it is easier to see quality athletes, torn, dryest, without notable flaws ... in lighter categories.

But on a pro level, size has always been a determining factor and it's what fans and beginners find to be something to pursue, something inspiring.

Also, overall nationals champions are almost always from the 2 heaviest categories.

Amateur guys who look bad with a lot of size will not look better with a smaller size or worse condition.

So what is your point?

My point is :

Most of the " big freaks" walking around in the nationals crowd will NEVER win a local NPC contest.
Meanwhile, the lighter guys they ridicule become national champs IN THEIR SPORT .

To me , that's a disconnect from the reality of what actually wins vs their own ideals.

[Howard]

And then I guess that MY point, is that your (second and main) point, is tautological- for all practical purposes- and thus not really a “point”, so much as stating an obvious “fact”, that every single poster in this thread is already aware of. So why make it? I’m guessing so you can slide in your main, and recurring, point- we don’t need a lot of drugs. Somehow it always slides there, whether you intend it or not. And I agree. Point acknowledged. Now do something about it.

Nice answer and I appreciate you maintaining an intellectual tone.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I DID something for may years, as a regional NPC judge.
BUT, I didn't need to do anything because , the lighter wt ripped physiques have always done well in NPC contests.
Plus, the NPC also has viable divisions in: MPD & classic for men , with WPD, bikini, figure and wellness for ladies.

I'm NOT saying these lighter , less massive physiques need to be rewarded at contests ...BECAUSE they are .

My question lies with those who favor freaky mass over being successful at contests.
In direct terms, many of the national champs will look very different from the ideals of many in the crowd .

It's NOT my OPINION that we have a lot more national champions with smaller, less freaky physiques.
The reality of contest success on the NPC stage doesn't line up with the hardcore mass lovers ideals.
Despite this reality, they keep spouting the same line about needing to be a massive freak to do well in contests.

[Howard]

At an amateur level, it is easier to see quality athletes, torn, dryest, without notable flaws ... in lighter categories.

But on a pro level, size has always been a determining factor and it's what fans and beginners find to be something to pursue, something inspiring.

Also, overall nationals champions are almost always from the 2 heaviest categories.

Amateur guys who look bad with a lot of size will not look better with a smaller size or worse condition.

So what is your point?

I just wanted to add that 100% of my direct involvement ( judging, competing ) with BB contests was with the NPC and a few AAU contests.
I enjoy seeing pro events and attended a few over the years. BUT, it's a small part of my own BB lifestyle.

Suffice to say, I prefer seeing all the wt classes that are part of NPC events.
As you know, my favorite division is classic and I'm not fond of MPD ( *due to the format NOT the physiques)

I went to the npc Jr nationals last year and really enjoyed watching it live.
I love the atmosphere and vibe at well run NPC contests at all levels.
For me, these events are the core of bodybuilding.

I watch streams and coverage of pro events, BUT I'm not taking the time , trouble and $$ to attend.

I enjoy seeing a few mass freaks, but, I want to see all the lighter, ripped physiques as well.
NPC shows always have plenty of lighter , ripped bodies while most pro events have few ( * except classic and MPD).

[Jude2]

Howard, you have an incredible knack for spinning literally any topic whatsoever, to suit your ongoing agenda. We get it- drugs are bad and have gotten out of control. Quit pointing out the obvious, and think of a practical solution. It’s seriously tiring.

Nothing like stating the obvious. lol

[Beti ona]

My point is :

Most of the " big freaks" walking around in the nationals crowd will NEVER win a local NPC contest.
Meanwhile, the lighter guys they ridicule become national champs IN THEIR SPORT .

To me , that's a disconnect from the reality of what actually wins vs their own ideals.

If they don't win it's not because they're freaks, it's because they don't get in condition, have missing body parts, pose like shit, have strange lumps for too obvius SEO use ...

[DerekRJohnson]

My point is :

Most of the " big freaks" walking around in the nationals crowd will NEVER win a local NPC contest.
Meanwhile, the lighter guys they ridicule become national champs IN THEIR SPORT .

To me , that's a disconnect from the reality of what actually wins vs their own ideals.

Always a misuse of quotation marks. And to think that you were a teacher.

[Howard]

Always a misuse of quotation marks. And to think that you were a teacher.

...and some still wonder why USA schools aren't the best in the world now.
If you can barely spell the subject you teach, you're students are in trouble.

[Griff11]

No obvious PED here

Screenshot_20211219-192215_Facebook.jpg