Are judges now taking their cues completely from the Head judge?

[Giles]

I’m pretty sure (if memory serves) it was the Portugal pro show in 2021 where I noticed something different with the judging sheets.

The scores were rigid, so it was (for example) 9 for first (so three first places), 18 for second, 27 for third…and so on.

So all judges were unanimous on every single placing.

Then I noticed it happening a LOT from then on.

Whilst sat right next to the judges doing livestream commentary at the European events last year I noticed how the Head judge moved around the competitors during the callouts then correlating that with the final results.

…and each time it seemed fairly clear that the Head judge was indicating their preferences for placings with the other judges & therefore the results following suit.

I guess judges are playing it safe more so by following the lead of the more experienced & possibly competent judges, but doesn’t it negate somewhat the need for multiple judges if they’re just really copying the head judge?

Is this a good thing, or not?

Have a look at most of the pro show judging sheets now, you’ll find that most shows every judge are in complete agreement with each other and - I believe - placing athletes exactly where the Head Judge is indicating by the way they move the guys/gals around.

Curious to hear thoughts on this…Thanks!

[Bestia]

Not sure at this level but at the local level 5 judges and a scorer to do the tally. I can tell you straight up the scores I submitted where changed by the scorer on at least two occasions (why I stopped judging). If anything. I believe the scorer takes their cues from the head judge

[bigmikecox]

You would hope that they would judge what they see and NOT by what the head judge scores it.

[GeorgeUK]

Depends on how many tops and bottoms are taken off.

At the Arnold it was 2 and 2

So theoretically a difference in opinion could get eaten up the system.

[lifepulse]

I have been told by many judges (local and regional level), that this is "just how it works", always has and always will.


At the regional level, if you are judging and your placings do NOT agree with the head judge -- if they are consistently "off" -- I know that they will use that as cause to kick you off of the judging panel, or go do more test judging, to "prove that you know how to judge".


I believe the head judge always makes the first calls, and I believe it's "sort of the norm" that the other judges usually do their best to "make sure that they agree with the head judge".


I also believe this is why Shawn Ray politicked so hard, back in the day, to have dividing walls between the judges -- precisely so they couldn't talk to one another, see how the head judge was ranking people, and so forth.


It is also sort of taken as sacrosanct law that "Steve can nail it right away", with no exception -- and that itself can be seen as a good thing, or sort of "scary". But when all of the pros take that as a given, then it sort of negates having a panel of judges anyways -- just let Steve judge the show by himself, no?

[Giles]

At the Olympia we still see disparity in judges placings, so, what I mean is, you rarely see 5, 5, 5, you’re likely to see 5, 7, 6 for example, meaning the other judges are scoring how they see it.

But the smaller pro shows, the sheets are unanimous pretty much on ALL the placings!

Are you telling me EVERY single judge has every single competitor say 1 through to 15 in EXACTLY the same position?

Like I said, I only started to see this happen a couple of years ago. It’s very common now and I do wonder why it began all of a sudden?

[Big Beat]

When you step back and think about its all a bit arbitrary. They do what they like.

The one good thing is that Weinberger is head judge the judging seems pretty fair even. Not too big a stretch to think he could be dictating how things should go

[Beti ona]

It's hard to defend judgment in bodybuilding and say it's not fixed, corrupt, or political an certian level. It would be easy to at least pretend that there isn't a group mentality to support the head judge, but they don't even bother to hide it.

[Giles]

I have been told by many judges (local and regional level), that this is "just how it works", always has and always will.


At the regional level, if you are judging and your placings do NOT agree with the head judge -- if they are consistently "off" -- I know that they will use that as cause to kick you off of the judging panel, or go do more test judging, to "prove that you know how to judge".


I believe the head judge always makes the first calls, and I believe it's "sort of the norm" that the other judges usually do their best to "make sure that they agree with the head judge".


I also believe this is why Shawn Ray politicked so hard, back in the day, to have dividing walls between the judges -- precisely so they couldn't talk to one another, see how the head judge was ranking people, and so forth.


It is also sort of taken as sacrosanct law that "Steve can nail it right away", with no exception -- and that itself can be seen as a good thing, or sort of "scary". But when all of the pros take that as a given, then it sort of negates having a panel of judges anyways -- just let Steve judge the show by himself, no?

They do have screening walls at the Olympia, but I still see judges leaning back on their chairs talking to the judges next to them.

I do agree though, if Steve has all other judges following his stage direction during prejudging then yeah, just let him judge by himself.

Would certainly save money, effort and time from other judges & show promoters.

[letsrun4it]

When I wanted to be a NPC judge, I was given a role "test judging" and my evaluation of my ability to judge a contest was how in line I could be with the actual scores. I knew what order the head judge had them in by her call outs, but I wasn't going to just recite those placings. So I decided against being a judge. Yes, if you don't agree with the head judge, you won't be invited as frequently to judge.