Do you guys do this too?

[Bestia]

For probably the past year and a half, it seems to be the in thing for all YouTube back training videos to start with a strap version of what I grew up calling stiff arm pulldowns. I have heard several people including Iain and CBum calling it a cable pullover. Almost always to start the training session.

I have always considered the movement a finishing movement with the primary benefit coming in the contracted position (but I have always done it with a pulldown bar with pronated grip at about shoulder width).

Have others here found the strap to start a session beneficial? If the goal is a pullover type movement then I would choose a pullover machine over the cable or even the old school dumbbell pull over - but that is just me

[bigmikecox]

Physically I cant do pullovers anymore, but that was a STAPLE back in the day. Superset pullovers with breathing squats! LMAO!

I do the stiff arm pulldown but with a straight or cambered bar and at times I will pre-exhaust with them. Rarely do use them as a finishing movement.

[Beti ona]

I don't like this version with the arms stretched out, so I'm going to put some grips on my elbows to simulate the machine as much as possible. Also moves more weight

I do it to finish my back workout.

[Bestia]

Thanks guys. Never used the strap before and don't think I am in a hurry to. I have done pullovers with a dumbbell over the rounded pad of a glute/ham station before for a deep stretch but like Mike I am limited to what my shoulders will tolerate these days.

[lifepulse]

My back/lats were always my weakest body part, developmentally, despite sticking with the "Ronnie basics" for years (bent BB rows, T-bar rows, deadlifts and rack pulls, 1-arm DB rows, pulldowns).


Around 2010 I started experimenting how to get my back to grow faster. Sure enough, pre-exhausting with high-rep stiff-arm pressdowns did the trick. It allowed me to finally start feeling my lats in isolation. I would actually do them kneeling on the floor to help further cut out hip sway/momentum. Then over the next few years, went to more single-arm machine rows and cable work (how you see the top guys training now), and that helped a lot too. (I also didn't realize during that time that I had a spine issue that was preventing me from going through a full ROM, so traditional rowing with 2-hands never "felt great" to me. Switching to isolation stuff helped more. And then I went and bought the Nautilus pullover in 2012, which also helped a lot.)


Point being, if you can't connect well with lats, "heavy basics" often make it harder yet to connect, isolation can work better; but if your back is a strong point, chances are you connect well with lats, and can prioritize heavy basic work.

[Bestia]

My back/lats were always my weakest body part, developmentally, despite sticking with the "Ronnie basics" for years (bent BB rows, T-bar rows, deadlifts and rack pulls, 1-arm DB rows, pulldowns).


Around 2010 I started experimenting how to get my back to grow faster. Sure enough, pre-exhausting with high-rep stiff-arm pressdowns did the trick. It allowed me to finally start feeling my lats in isolation. I would actually do them kneeling on the floor to help further cut out hip sway/momentum. Then over the next few years, went to more single-arm machine rows and cable work (how you see the top guys training now), and that helped a lot too. (I also didn't realize during that time that I had a spine issue that was preventing me from going through a full ROM, so traditional rowing with 2-hands never "felt great" to me. Switching to isolation stuff helped more. And then I went and bought the Nautilus pullover in 2012, which also helped a lot.)


Point being, if you can't connect well with lats, "heavy basics" often make it harder yet to connect, isolation can work better; but if your back is a strong point, chances are you connect well with lats, and can prioritize heavy basic work.

This makes sense and is probably why I never really felt the need to do much isolation or activation work for back.

Hamstrings, traps, biceps, upper chest - these could have probably benefitted as they were always problem areas that didn't have as strong of a mind muscle connection for me

[Howard]

Physically I cant do pullovers anymore, but that was a STAPLE back in the day. Superset pullovers with breathing squats! LMAO!

I do the stiff arm pulldown but with a straight or cambered bar and at times I will pre-exhaust with them. Rarely do use them as a finishing movement.

Good input on this topic from BMC

I used to do machine pullovers superset with underhand grip lat pulldown.

Or the best lat pump ever came from doing supersets of wide grip pullups w/ extra wt immediately followed by DB pullovers laying across the bench .

Like BMC , I can't do regular pullovers anymore, in my case due to an arthritic shoulder .

I finish lats sometimes with a high rep set of straight arm pulldowns

[lifepulse]

This makes sense and is probably why I never really felt the need to do much isolation or activation work for back.

Hamstrings, traps, biceps, upper chest - these could have probably benefitted as they were always problem areas that didn't have as strong of a mind muscle connection for me

I was all quads, glutes and calves -- high reps, low reps, squats, no squats, didn't matter -- if I was putting weight on the bar, legs were growing. After 2 years of solid training and then dieting down, I had to look at my physique honestly -- realized that upper body overall was lagging relative to lower body (good problem to have, I guess?) -- so I went to a 3:2 ratio of upper-to-lower for the next few years:

-push
-pull
-legs
-push

Next week:

-pull
-push
-legs
-pull


I think the most "sage" advice is what Dante Trudel used to say:

1) first 2-3 years, focus on your basics (bench, squat, deadlift, bent row, pullup, overhead press, close grips, RDLs)
2) get strong as a forklift on those lfts
3) then step back and evaluate your physique; whatever is lagging, it's a mechanical issue (triceps take over for chest on chest press), OR you're just genetically doomed (don't have the insertions or muscle fiber density in that area for good development, no matter what you do)
4) the points that are strong -- stop worrying about them, just keep doing what you're doing
5) the points that are not strong -- throw out the book and reinvent things from an entirely different angle (ha) or perspective


I think THAT is what "figuring our your body" really means -- and it takes years. Diet is diet, for the most part. Drugs are drugs, for the most part. Learning your unique anatomy -- hard work and discipline is a prerequisite, and there's still no guarantees, so many ways to screw it up and get stuck in a rut doing the same shit for years.

[Bestia]

Dante's prudent approach to fascia stretching is something that I took to heart for sure

[GeorgeUK]

I was all quads, glutes and calves -- high reps, low reps, squats, no squats, didn't matter -- if I was putting weight on the bar, legs were growing. After 2 years of solid training and then dieting down, I had to look at my physique honestly -- realized that upper body overall was lagging relative to lower body (good problem to have, I guess?) -- so I went to a 3:2 ratio of upper-to-lower for the next few years:

-push
-pull
-legs
-push

Next week:

-pull
-push
-legs
-pull


I think the most "sage" advice is what Dante Trudel used to say:

1) first 2-3 years, focus on your basics (bench, squat, deadlift, bent row, pullup, overhead press, close grips, RDLs)
2) get strong as a forklift on those lfts
3) then step back and evaluate your physique; whatever is lagging, it's a mechanical issue (triceps take over for chest on chest press), OR you're just genetically doomed (don't have the insertions or muscle fiber density in that area for good development, no matter what you do)
4) the points that are strong -- stop worrying about them, just keep doing what you're doing
5) the points that are not strong -- throw out the book and reinvent things from an entirely different angle (ha) or perspective


I think THAT is what "figuring our your body" really means -- and it takes years. Diet is diet, for the most part. Drugs are drugs, for the most part. Learning your unique anatomy -- hard work and discipline is a prerequisite, and there's still no guarantees, so many ways to screw it up and get stuck in a rut doing the same shit for years.

This is the split I'm using and have usually used.

However, I sometimes add a 5th day which is either 1hr cardio or arms. Both are low impact on central nervous system.

Doing pullovers before heavier stuff is somethging Luke got me doing. Do that 90% of workouts still. That being said I do a pulley or dumbell pullover every session.

Legs

Always do fluff before anything remotely heavy - Leg Curls, light leg ext, adductor and abductor machines

[Squat Junkie]

Never as a starter.

[Giles]

One thing if I may…

Dumbell pullovers.

If you do them do you have them on chest day, or back day?

Can never decide myself…confuzzles me, muchly.

[Beti ona]

One thing if I may…

Dumbell pullovers.

If you do them do you have them on chest day, or back day?

Can never decide myself…confuzzles me, muchly.

I have always thought that it is a dorsal exercise

[lifepulse]

One thing if I may…

Dumbell pullovers.

If you do them do you have them on chest day, or back day?

Can never decide myself…confuzzles me, muchly.

I have seen videos of Dorian explicitly admonishing lifters for doing pullovers for chest, because "pullovers are a back exercise, pure and simple".

Your Brit card is revoked, Giles. Dorian has already ruled on this topic.

[Big Beat]

One thing if I may…

Dumbell pullovers.

If you do them do you have them on chest day, or back day?

Can never decide myself…confuzzles me, muchly.

Before Dorian pullovers were done with chest. The idea was lying dumbbell and barbell pullovers would expand the rib cage, particularly in guys under 25.

The 1940's and '50's bodybuilders did squats and pullovers as supersets along with vacuums. This totally changed the look of bodybuilders, a big rib cage was a prized asset.

I always felt lying dumbell pullovers hit my serts most.