Do you guys do this too?

[Howard]

I don't know how to put the little pics in here but this is where I would put the agreeable headbanger or beer up doohickey

the meathead prayer
1 eat big 2. Go heavy 3. mega dose juice
4. Die young and massive
5. Get laid to rest in a Piano case for a coffin

[Bestia]

Yeah that

[Beti ona]

Howard is the master of using them in his posts.. for me, I guess it is enough too say thumbs up, I agree with you on the "low intensity, maintenance, nonsense"

[Bestia]

Howard is the master of using them in his posts.. for me, I guess it is enough too say thumbs up, I agree with you on the "low intensity, maintenance, nonsense"

[Beti ona]

Hahaha, it's a shame because I don't know what you're talking about

[Bestia]

I won't be able to squat and deadlift every week, and I won't be training at 6-8 reps either, but I'm going to continue training with intensity and not half throttle, maintenance, and nonsense of that type.

I don't know how to put the little pics in here but this is where I would put the agreeable headbanger or beer up doohickey

[Beti ona]

Heavy is relative as you well know Beti. Something makes me think you can get after it when you are feeling spicy with the weights

I won't be able to squat and deadlift every week, and I won't be training at 6-8 reps either, but I'm going to continue training with intensity and not half throttle, maintenance, and nonsense of that type.

[Bestia]

For a long time I trained bro split, but one after that I focused more on strength and the 3 basics of powerlifting, and since then it has always made more sense to me this PPL approach where you have more rest days.

In any case, my days of heavy training are already behind me so I have to adopt other techniques like the ones you mention.

Heavy is relative as you well know Beti. Something makes me think you can get after it when you are feeling spicy with the weights

[Beti ona]

It all depends which stage of lifting you're at and how you're lifting.


I trained mostly on a "bro split" during most of my "getting massive" years, then took a few years off training, drugs, lost a ton of my size (most of it). When I came back to training again, I knew I didn't want to lift heavy like I used to -- I knew my body couldn't handle it, nor did I have any desire. After a few months of playing with different approaches, I locked into all supersets, fairly light to moderate weight (but sets still taken close to failure) -- I got my cardio very strong first, so I wouldn't get winded easily or shut down by lactic acid.


Supersetting chest and back -- my entire upper body would get the craziest pump I had ever gotten in my life. And I was back on TRT, so I had hormones again in my body for the first time in over 2 years.


I started putting muscle back on at a crazy fast rate. Granted, it was all muscle memory -- from years of having built muscle neurons earlier, I was just regaining a lot of what I had lost, especially when combined with TRT. No, I don't think I would have grown during my earlier years if I had trained that way. But once older and gaining muscle back, trying to avoid injury and just feel good while lifting, it was a potent combo. I even started training in almost circuit fashion at times, or like Milos giant sets -- stacking 4-5 movements in a row with absolute minimal rest, pushing each one towards momentary muscular failure (even if it was with sub-maximal load) -- and it felt great. I would have amazing workouts, I got substantially bigger, I got a lot of my strength back, I never felt like I might hurt myself, and end of the workout, I didn't feel like I got hit by a truck, I felt GOOD when I was done.

For a long time I trained bro split, but one after that I focused more on strength and the 3 basics of powerlifting, and since then it has always made more sense to me this PPL approach where you have more rest days.

In any case, my days of heavy training are already behind me so I have to adopt other techniques like the ones you mention.

[Bestia]

I remember Arthur Jones sales pitch was his nautilus pullover machine could but lats on a stick.

With the way things are trending nowadays with a simultaneous resurgence of retro movements and machines along with the widespread use of unilateral movements I could easily see some "innovator" creating a pullover machine where each arm can move individually.

Then won't it be fun for Orthopedic docs treating the increase in torn labrums and rotator cuffs

[Big Beat]

I remember Arthur Jones sales pitch was his nautilus pullover machine could but lats on a stick.

[lifepulse]

And on that note, I just saw Cutler posted his "Fit for 50" video 3 hours ago, training chest -- and he finishes chest with DB pullovers, lol. So you know, feel it out and go with feel I guess -- but science wise, I'm going with Dorian over Cutler.

[lifepulse]

When I trained chest & back together I did chest first, then back.

To subvert my confusion, my final chest movement would be Dumbell pullovers!

…or you could argue it was my first back exercise?

Either way, they made me sore in both areas.

I’m still uncertain which bodypart to include them with! Bloody chest or back???

Saying that, I can’t even remember the part time I ever did them? Think I’ll restart this week…oh shit, but do I include them with my chest OR back workouts though?? Dammit!!!

Pullovers don't directly stimulate the chest. They stretch the chest a bit (in the extended-overhead position) -- and you'll feel your pecs contracted if you sit there holding the DB over your face between reps (because, well, your arms are in front of your body, just like the end of a chest press), but that's it.


Feeling the stretch in the pecs during a pullover -- if you do pullups and come to a dead hang (and have big pecs), you will feel your pecs stretch up around your neck (and possibly choke you a bit) -- so pullups also "stretch the pecs" -- so does a cable row -- doesn't mean pullups and cable rows are "for pecs".


As Big Beat noted above, the guys in the 70s did pullovers for chest -- but they were aiming more at expanding the rib cage, not working the actual pecs. DB pullovers WILL work the hell out of your intercostals and serratus anterior -- part of the reason so many guys in the 70s had all of those muscles so well developed. Some guys (like Frank Zane) considered pullovers a "total upper body movement", precisely because it is difficult to isolate a particular muscle when you're heaving a 140lbs DB over your face (you kinda' feel it everywhere, like BB squats taken to failure -- they hurt everything, including your soul).


But technically -- done correctly, with good form -- keep the arms fairly straight (only a minor bend in the elbow to avoid ripping your shoulders out of the socket and not hinging at the elbow as you do them, not arching the ever-loving-shit out of your lower back to compensate for the weight as it stretches you backwards -- done how John Meadows does them) -- pullovers are a lat exercise.


If you feel them in both -- and want to do them end of chest as an intro to lats -- I think that makes the most sense. Chest is warm, and so stretching it out at the end is a good thing -- and pullovers are an isolation movement for lats, so doing them first as a pre-exhaust makes sense.


However, if you're splitting chest and back -- they belong on back day, Giles. The very fact that there are numerous machines called a "machine pullover", all designed for lats -- and that all the new-age lifters are now calling stiff-arm pressdowns "cable pullovers" -- kinda' supports that (as does the biomechanics of the movement).

[lifepulse]

Biceps and triceps makes sense since they are small muscles and it is easy to sustain prolonged intensity.

Full legs also makes sense because most free weights exercises (or even leg presses) hit hams, glutes, and quads, so doing a split between quads and hams is a bit difficult.

It all depends which stage of lifting you're at and how you're lifting.


I trained mostly on a "bro split" during most of my "getting massive" years, then took a few years off training, drugs, lost a ton of my size (most of it). When I came back to training again, I knew I didn't want to lift heavy like I used to -- I knew my body couldn't handle it, nor did I have any desire. After a few months of playing with different approaches, I locked into all supersets, fairly light to moderate weight (but sets still taken close to failure) -- I got my cardio very strong first, so I wouldn't get winded easily or shut down by lactic acid.


Supersetting chest and back -- my entire upper body would get the craziest pump I had ever gotten in my life. And I was back on TRT, so I had hormones again in my body for the first time in over 2 years.


I started putting muscle back on at a crazy fast rate. Granted, it was all muscle memory -- from years of having built muscle neurons earlier, I was just regaining a lot of what I had lost, especially when combined with TRT. No, I don't think I would have grown during my earlier years if I had trained that way. But once older and gaining muscle back, trying to avoid injury and just feel good while lifting, it was a potent combo. I even started training in almost circuit fashion at times, or like Milos giant sets -- stacking 4-5 movements in a row with absolute minimal rest, pushing each one towards momentary muscular failure (even if it was with sub-maximal load) -- and it felt great. I would have amazing workouts, I got substantially bigger, I got a lot of my strength back, I never felt like I might hurt myself, and end of the workout, I didn't feel like I got hit by a truck, I felt GOOD when I was done.

[Beti ona]

I don't do it regularly (in fact I haven't done it for years) but supersetting exercises in a push/pull split (bis/Tris, quads/hams, chest/back) the intense, sustained pump can be awesome. I've used it in the final few weeks leading into a show also.

Biceps and triceps makes sense since they are small muscles and it is easy to sustain prolonged intensity.

Full legs also makes sense because most free weights exercises (or even leg presses) hit hams, glutes, and quads, so doing a split between quads and hams is a bit difficult.