Tyler Manion - this is what competitors and fans want - thank you.

[GeorgeUK]

Recent video by Tyler Manion from Texas Pro
Excellent critique and guys/Andrew - you can't get away with just doing a front tricep pose.

[Bestia]

This is all fine and good and I applaud the intent - but what took so long? And why point out this stuff selectively?

It is wrong to just do a "front tricep" shot. I hate that pose. But it should be wrong to do it "Dorian style" too. For mandatories, there is supposed to be only one way to perform each pose. If that's the case, penalize anyone altering the pose. They can do that shit in their free posing. In fact, Tyler talking about "much more effective most muscular for him" - WTF? There are only 2 mandatory most muscular - hands on hips and crab. As nice as it may look, the Shawn Ray or Kevin Levrone hands pushed together at the waist and shoulders wide and forward version is not one of the mandatories. These dudes.make shit up all the time and now they are saying they don't want them to, but only certain guys for certain poses?

This video just seems to be a good opportunity for the powers that be to justify Hunter, highlighting why it is a close decision and at the same time planting the seed for the Olympia when they put Hunter somewhere no one thinks he should be.

Facts from Texas are that Hunter has improved his physique but still can't nail his peak for stage. Either way, Andrew's improvements have moved him past Hunter since the last Olympia and frankly it looks like that gap is just going to widen (Jacked much higher ceiling than Hunter).

Either way, neither of these guys have a chance in hell of beating Derek, Hadi, or Samson unless they fall down and elevator shaft before the Olympia

[Griff11]

This is all fine and good and I applaud the intent - but what took so long? And why point out this stuff selectively?

It is wrong to just do a "front tricep" shot. I hate that pose. But it should be wrong to do it "Dorian style" too. For mandatories, there is supposed to be only one way to perform each pose. If that's the case, penalize anyone altering the pose. They can do that shit in their free posing. In fact, Tyler talking about "much more effective most muscular for him" - WTF? There are only 2 mandatory most muscular - hands on hips and crab. As nice as it may look, the Shawn Ray or Kevin Levrone hands pushed together at the waist and shoulders wide and forward version is not one of the mandatories. These dudes.make shit up all the time and now they are saying they don't want them to, but only certain guys for certain poses?

This video just seems to be a good opportunity for the powers that be to justify Hunter, highlighting why it is a close decision and at the same time planting the seed for the Olympia when they put Hunter somewhere no one thinks he should be.

Facts from Texas are that Hunter has improved his physique but still can't nail his peak for stage. Either way, Andrew's improvements have moved him past Hunter since the last Olympia and frankly it looks like that gap is just going to widen (Jacked much higher ceiling than Hunter).

Either way, neither of these guys have a chance in hell of beating Derek, Hadi, or Samson unless they fall down and elevator shaft before the Olympia

Yep

[Bestia]

Hahaha. So I got diarrhea of the fingers

[bigmikecox]

I think this is a good idea. There was so much shit after the Arnold that fans of certain dudes can and should watch this so they dont get butt hurt if their favorite doesnt place high. We never saw a judge or top official even come close to putting anything like this out ever!!!

I say hit the side triceps conventionally, THEN transition into the other version. Just like the ab thigh has turned into the vacuum/thigh.

[GeorgeUK]

This is all fine and good and I applaud the intent - but what took so long? And why point out this stuff selectively?

It is wrong to just do a "front tricep" shot. I hate that pose. But it should be wrong to do it "Dorian style" too. For mandatories, there is supposed to be only one way to perform each pose. If that's the case, penalize anyone altering the pose. They can do that shit in their free posing. In fact, Tyler talking about "much more effective most muscular for him" - WTF? There are only 2 mandatory most muscular - hands on hips and crab. As nice as it may look, the Shawn Ray or Kevin Levrone hands pushed together at the waist and shoulders wide and forward version is not one of the mandatories. These dudes.make shit up all the time and now they are saying they don't want them to, but only certain guys for certain poses?

This video just seems to be a good opportunity for the powers that be to justify Hunter, highlighting why it is a close decision and at the same time planting the seed for the Olympia when they put Hunter somewhere no one thinks he should be.

Facts from Texas are that Hunter has improved his physique but still can't nail his peak for stage. Either way, Andrew's improvements have moved him past Hunter since the last Olympia and frankly it looks like that gap is just going to widen (Jacked much higher ceiling than Hunter).

Either way, neither of these guys have a chance in hell of beating Derek, Hadi, or Samson unless they fall down and elevator shaft before the Olympia

Did Dorian do a SIDE tricep? yes
Did Andrew do a SIDE tricep? - no
That is the distinction

I think variation on a pose is fine as long as you are hitting the pose. A straight up FDB is fine and so is an angled FDB etc

You may have a point about the Hunter thing, but there is no way of knowing if that is the motivation.

The fact that it should have been done before, doesn't mean it isn't good now. Forward >>>>>

[Bestia]

Did Dorian do a SIDE tricep? yes
Did Andrew do a SIDE tricep? - no
That is the distinction

I think variation on a pose is fine as long as you are hitting the pose. A straight up FDB is fine and so is an angled FDB etc

You may have a point about the Hunter thing, but there is no way of knowing if that is the motivation.

The fact that it should have been done before, doesn't mean it isn't good now. Forward >>>>>

Without a doubt this is a step in the right direction. The validity will come with the consistency of providing this feedback and evaluation.

Some additional items to note about the concept:
If they are pointing out things that hurt the competitor like the tilted front double or the lack of a true side tricep, even some comments on Hunters stomach control - I want them to be inclusive of the taboo discussion points as well. Point out if a competitor has obvious SEO, muscle tear or atrophy, etc.

[Griff11]

Without a doubt this is a step in the right direction. The validity will come with the consistency of providing this feedback and evaluation.

Some additional items to note about the concept:
If they are pointing out things that hurt the competitor like the tilted front double or the lack of a true side tricep, even some comments on Hunters stomach control - I want them to be inclusive of the taboo discussion points as well. Point out if a competitor has obvious SEO, muscle tear or atrophy, etc.

Seo would hurt Andrew his arms are over oiled

[Bestia]

Seo would hurt Andrew his arms are over oiled

Would hurt the reigning Mr O because of shoulders. There is zero chance they will include any commentary on that

[Beti ona]

How the hell Hunter wins the side chest pose?

13730777.jpg

[lifepulse]

Did Dorian do a SIDE tricep? yes
Did Andrew do a SIDE tricep? - no
That is the distinction

I think variation on a pose is fine as long as you are hitting the pose. A straight up FDB is fine and so is an angled FDB etc

You may have a point about the Hunter thing, but there is no way of knowing if that is the motivation.

The fact that it should have been done before, doesn't mean it isn't good now. Forward >>>>>

Problem is, this is semantic and just leads to further debate and arguing that runs in circles.

In "George's opinion", Dorian hit a side triceps; but that depends how "side triceps" is defined -- yes he was turned to the side, so was Andrew -- the "degree of rotation" was off, so what, one has to be 90% turned to the side, Andrew was 60%? You get the point -- the judges either standardize the poses or they do not -- and they then have to judge "did competitor X, in fact, perform it properly?" Just like 9.4s are given to gymnasts etc., relative to an idealized standard.

Either way, kinda' doesn't matter -- because you're not the IFBB official judges, you're just giving "your interpretation" of "what constitutes a side triceps and what does not". If it's open to interpretation, then logically it's open to interpretation for everybody, including those who hit it like Andrew hit it. Obviously doesn't diminish the excitement for most fans, since that singular pose is being bandied around social media more than any other pose -- the fans are gaga about Andrew's "clearly impressive and superior" side triceps pose, while Hunter's "most dominant side triceps in the IFBB" isn't really getting much discussion.


Judges either clearly define things -- or George and David and 100,000 other fans debate for another decade. Our debate is pointless, spinning in circles, it's the officials' jobs to set clearer standards, and not over a social media video that maybe 20% of the competitors will actually see. Write a rulebook, enforce the rulebook, or just let people do what they feel like doing, those are the options as I see it.

[Griff11]

Would hurt the reigning Mr O because of shoulders. There is zero chance they will include any commentary on that

They'll never touch it. Hadi's forearms freak me out just loaded.

[Bestia]

That's the problem with opening the kimono, once you get a glimpse you want to see the whole thing. Tyler and company give you a glimpse into why competitors place where they do and what figures into that, people want full disclosure. I can hear the IFBB sphincters snapping shut collectively

[Beti ona]

Point out if a competitor has obvious SEO, muscle tear or atrophy, etc.;

In the judging criteria video, there's a moment where Tyler says, we want to see shoulders proportional to back. I want to think that it was an indirect criticism of SEO.

But it must be punish, just like the front triceps.

[GeorgeUK]

Problem is, this is semantic and just leads to further debate and arguing that runs in circles.

In "George's opinion", Dorian hit a side triceps; but that depends how "side triceps" is defined -- yes he was turned to the side, so was Andrew -- the "degree of rotation" was off, so what, one has to be 90% turned to the side, Andrew was 60%? You get the point -- the judges either standardize the poses or they do not -- and they then have to judge "did competitor X, in fact, perform it properly?" Just like 9.4s are given to gymnasts etc., relative to an idealized standard.

Either way, kinda' doesn't matter -- because you're not the IFBB official judges, you're just giving "your interpretation" of "what constitutes a side triceps and what does not". If it's open to interpretation, then logically it's open to interpretation for everybody, including those who hit it like Andrew hit it. Obviously doesn't diminish the excitement for most fans, since that singular pose is being bandied around social media more than any other pose -- the fans are gaga about Andrew's "clearly impressive and superior" side triceps pose, while Hunter's "most dominant side triceps in the IFBB" isn't really getting much discussion.


Judges either clearly define things -- or George and David and 100,000 other fans debate for another decade. Our debate is pointless, spinning in circles, it's the officials' jobs to set clearer standards, and not over a social media video that maybe 20% of the competitors will actually see. Write a rulebook, enforce the rulebook, or just let people do what they feel like doing, those are the options as I see it.

No I didn't judge it but this guy did

Tyler Manion specifically pointed out that the way Andrew went against the criteria that was outlined in a previous video. If Andrew didn't pay attention to specific criteria, that's bad on him. The real reason is that his regular side tricep is nowhere near as impressive as his front tricep.