Off-season condition and growing lean

[smbarney]

if some one isnt on ass or post cycle how would you change this? lower the amount of fats?

[Matt Porter]

Great advice in this thread Matt.

What's your opinion on EQ? Both for bulking and cutting, and using it as a primary anabolic VS nandrolone (Deca/NPP)? What dosage would you use it in for effective gains and for how long?

Thanks.

I would not rely on boldenone as a PRIMARY anabolic.... only additive or 'secondary.'

Primary should be the obvious Testosterone or Trenbolone.

If you wanted to have boldenone shine through as a primary...

perhaps running it 800-1000mg

while keeping T to 250 mg a week or tren low....

But hematocrit and anxiety could be problematic....

Of course Q could be used for cutting or gaining.....I just feels it doesnt pack much 'punch'

-Matt

[Matt Porter]

Been on HRT dose of 200 mg test cyp. Never cycled before, and am looking to starting bumping the dose a bit and see what happens. What would be a good mild first go at it? Would 300 mg be any good, or would it need to be any higher to notice any significant changes?

If you are on 200 mgs for TRT and let's say are at a range of 800 ng/dL I would say trying 400-500 mg /week would be great for you....

-Matt

[SideShowDoc]

If you are on 200 mgs for TRT and let's say are at a range of 800 ng/dL I would say trying 400-500 mg /week would be great for you....

-Matt

Gotcha. I know everyone will respond differently, but what is the average response in most males you see doing a first cycle like so, provided they use an AI and keep estradiol in the 20-30 range. Do they get a little softer from water retention or bloat at all, or is there usually no noticeable negative response? If so, is there a certain level of test most guys can run with little of the estrogenic sides like bloat/water retention?

[Iwanttobebig]

just because you get on AAS does not mean you can always eat more carbs and store less fat. Some people still convert carbs into fat at an accelerated rate. Your metabolism should be increased so yes you will burn more carbs, but only adjust carb intake mildly.

You will have INCREASED protein synthetic response from ingesting AA's/proteins so I would increase that macro.

I would FOR SURE increase protein and just mildly increase the carbs and see what happens.....

Keep carbs where they are --->increase protein/aa ingetsion ---> gauge progress-----> then increase carbs by a little and see how you react.

-Matt

I see what you mean, and yeah, the increased protein is a given. But can't my muscles store way more glycogen on AAS. Maybe not on "AAS", but on for instance compounds like Test and especially Tren and Superdrol and those kinds of compounds that are known for making you full instantly, that's obviously not new muscle, that's water inside the muscle because you're storing more glycogen, RIGHT?

[SideShowDoc]

I have been using a similar approach. I think things have averaged out to around 2 grams protein per/lb LBM, 2.3 carbs per lb/lbm, and o.4-0.5 grams fat per lb/lbm. THats training days. Off days carbs go down to around 1.5 grams/lb lbm and protein/fat stay the same. I would guess my metabolism is on the above average side, seeing as the only physical activity I get besides lifting is walking anywhere from 3-4 pr 5 miles a day just commuting, etc.

If a client were not gaining off that would you just increase all macros, mainly carbs and proteins in the peri workout window, and maybe a touch of fat later on? I pretty much stick to the easier digested foods you mention earlier in the day, and later in the day have something like yams for dinner, and before bed on training days I keep carbs in usually in the form of a smaller amount of ezekiel cereal along with some protein and fat (usually 20-30 carbs worth...I pull carbs from here and some from dinner/the afternoon meals on of days)

Soo soo dependent on so soo many things.....

A.) Is the person a naturally fatter/huskier person
B.) Is the person using AAS, GH, Peps All or nothing?
C.) Is this person training 3,4,6 times a week?
D.) Is this person office working all day or A UPS worker moving all day?

In general --

For the naturally leaner person who does include AAS etc...but is sedentary at day job-

I would recommend - protein around 35-45g per meal
- carbs around 45- 55g per meal
- fats around 10-15g per meal
- 6-8 meals a day

Now, reason I keep protein not too high and carbs moderate/medium is because this dude is sedentary. NOT MOVING, just thinking.
I would like his carbs to be easy to digest also his protein easy to digest. Think jasmine/basmati rice, bagels & chicken, fish, whey isolate
I would like his fats on the low-ish side to ease digestion and nutrient assimilation time. (remember the naturally leaner guys tend to have LESS appetite + sitting all day)

I would have this person then ingest a larger meal POST WORKOUT -- inthe neighborhood of 70-90g protein w/ 120-150g of carbs to really ignite insulin and PS.

Then as he sleeps and wakes up --fats...raw almond butter, raw nuts, cottage cheese... My goal would be to keep the person NOT STUFFED, yet constant influx of nutrients all day and primarily heavy feeding post training with fats optimized late at night.

-Matt

[smbarney]

Matt im
curious how u would adjust that offseason diet for a endo who isn't on ass or post cycle.

[DARK NIGHT]

Whats your advantages over a tren mix to something like tren enanthate?

At what dose do you call low dose blast and cruise test cycles?

[BlueRocket]

Hi guys .... I had no idea Matt posted this up or I would have chimed in earlier.

One question was what was I at prior to starting trt .... my number was 206.

I would like to say that Matt obviously knows his stuff .... I started bodybuilding 2 years ago this last July and had never competed before ..... I got with Matt the first of April after I had sort of started to diet from 200 lbs which I had just gotten to that weight. I was soft and he had his work cut out for him. In 3 months he brought me into the Chicago Wings of Strength Pro/Am at 165.9 and absolutely shredded. I ended up winning 1 class and taking 2 2nd places and qualified for Nationals in my first show .... thanks again Matt !!

I started a log on the AndroSeries that Matt put me on ... AndroHard/AndroLean/AndroEnhance. In the 7.5 weeks (.5 week left) I have gained 10 lbs while staying very lean. We are now moving into the semi "bulk" phase which will last 12 weeks. He tells me as we go .. but AndroBulk and increase in calories is the plan right now. I will log that as well... if Matt wants me too

Here is the link to the log I'm doing now... I will give my final review of the stack after this weekend.....

http://forums.musculardevelopment.co...h-AndroEnhance

I like to put in lots of pics so you can see the results ... versus just typing words.

If anyone has any questions.. please feel free to pm or ask here .... and if anyone is even thinking of hiring a coach ... I'm telling you Matt Porter is the man !! I'm very excited to see what we can do in the next 12 weeks .... training for the Nationals next year .... I love this journey

[BlueRocket]

Here is a pic that I just got from a photoshoot I had done this last Saturday ... the photographer is Jr Wyatt (he's on FaceBook) ... He is sending me the rest as we speak but thought I would post this pic so you can see where I'm at 7.5 weeks into the stack ....

[Matt Porter]

Gotcha. I know everyone will respond differently, but what is the average response in most males you see doing a first cycle like so, provided they use an AI and keep estradiol in the 20-30 range. Do they get a little softer from water retention or bloat at all, or is there usually no noticeable negative response? If so, is there a certain level of test most guys can run with little of the estrogenic sides like bloat/water retention?

If you keep estrogen low (in range) and only jump into a mild cycle like mentioned,

you should GAIN AS LEAN AS WHAT YOUR EATING.

You see? If you eat like a champ and I mean clean foods and not cheat a lot simply because "Oh Im on gear and can store calories more favorably blah blah"

You will potentially lose fat and gain muscle....seriously you will.

Especially if you BEGIN the cycle lean....you under normal conditions will just grow lean.

If you "bulk up" and let your guard down on diet....then you could get watery, and accrue bit of fat tissue..and have a blurrier/puffy look.

But that can be avoided.

-Matt

[Matt Porter]

I see what you mean, and yeah, the increased protein is a given. But can't my muscles store way more glycogen on AAS. Maybe not on "AAS", but on for instance compounds like Test and especially Tren and Superdrol and those kinds of compounds that are known for making you full instantly, that's obviously not new muscle, that's water inside the muscle because you're storing more glycogen, RIGHT?

I am not so sure they store MORE glycogen as the maximum capacity would depend on muscle size etc...

But I am under the impression that you can MAKE THE MOST from your carbohydrates from specific androgens..

The aromatizing effects of testosterone will elicit some estradiol conversion and estrogen has been shown to

DECREASE glut-4-transporter in adipose tissue and INCREASE it in skeletal muscle...that would explain estrogens role in glycogen synthesis.

-Matt

[Matt Porter]

I have been using a similar approach. I think things have averaged out to around 2 grams protein per/lb LBM, 2.3 carbs per lb/lbm, and o.4-0.5 grams fat per lb/lbm. THats training days. Off days carbs go down to around 1.5 grams/lb lbm and protein/fat stay the same. I would guess my metabolism is on the above average side, seeing as the only physical activity I get besides lifting is walking anywhere from 3-4 pr 5 miles a day just commuting, etc.

If a client were not gaining off that would you just increase all macros, mainly carbs and proteins in the peri workout window, and maybe a touch of fat later on? I pretty much stick to the easier digested foods you mention earlier in the day, and later in the day have something like yams for dinner, and before bed on training days I keep carbs in usually in the form of a smaller amount of ezekiel cereal along with some protein and fat (usually 20-30 carbs worth...I pull carbs from here and some from dinner/the afternoon meals on of days)

If its an Endo I increase fats or protein

If ecto/meso protein or carbs or both...

-Matt

[Matt Porter]

Matt im
curious how u would adjust that offseason diet for a endo who isn't on ass or post cycle.

I keep the ENDO on lower calories ....bottom line.

Protein is highest in macros, fats second, and carbs thrown in 'here & there.'

7oz fatty fish + greens
8 oz 96% lean beef + greens
etc.. etc..

throw in some carbohydrates post workout on leg and back day

50-100g

Give him a "free meal" once a week if the BF% is staying reasonable...

Basically just keep his body efficient and try to keep any weight super lean...

-Matt

[Matt Porter]

Whats your advantages over a tren mix to something like tren enanthate?

At what dose do you call low dose blast and cruise test cycles?

tren mix? You mean tren hex? (parabolan)...

Only advantage is tren acetate which allows you to 'retreat' the cycle if the compound simply is too much for your body

"blast & cruise" is all RELATIVE to the person at hand....

Some a cruise is 200mg/week and a blast is 600 mg.....

Then on opposite end of spectrum some might cruise on a 'gram" (LOL) and blast on 3++++ grams....

-Matt